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Post by Freeborn on Dec 2, 2018 7:05:14 GMT -6
In particular on Small Properties.
like allot of guys my place is small, particularly my contiguous woods. I'm basically working with 40-50 acres of woods/marsh.
I typically have one mature buck on my place but that's it. Depending on the rut I do get cruiser bucks. I typically have 3-4 doe groups but that typically includes small groups of 2-3.
First, is it possible to hold 2 or more 4+ year old bucks on 40-50 acres of woods? If it is, what would be the top things you would do to establish this?
Throwing out ideas:
Establish Dispersed bedding and food plots increase doe groups
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 2, 2018 7:45:42 GMT -6
I don't know the answer but I suppose it depends on the season. I regularly have 10+ bucks use my plots at the same time in the summer. There are usually 4 or 5 that are older than 2.5. They tolerate each other's presence very well at that time of year and are very social with each other. They disperse in the fall and then regroup somewhat in the spring. I often get return visits from them during November but they aren't all regulars at this time. If I had to guess I would say you are on the right track with dispersing bedding and food so that several antisocial individual can stay on your place and still meet all their needs without having to bump into each other. I'm not sure I agree with increasing doe groups. I think a dominant doe or a large doe family can disperse bucks. I tend to think old bucks and does don't get alone for the majority of the year.
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Post by nhmountains on Dec 2, 2018 8:04:54 GMT -6
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Post by nhmountains on Dec 2, 2018 8:08:03 GMT -6
I’ve given up for now on trying to hold the bucks on my land. I have to wait until the rut and make sure I have plenty of does.
Once I get done with all my projects then there’ll be less human presence and maybe the big bucks will hang around more.
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Post by terrifictom on Dec 2, 2018 8:23:19 GMT -6
From my experience 1 dominate buck will call a small piece of land home during rut. As you said other dominate bucks will cruise thru. Last year and year before I had 2 monsters that would hang together all summer. Once they shed their velvet one would disappear. Last year the one that stuck around I killed. Within 2 weeks the other big one came back and stuck around. He stayed all last fall and was there this year again. Still had other big bucks cruising thru this year but they come and go.
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Post by gsquared23 on Dec 2, 2018 8:42:01 GMT -6
Unless you're on the edge of two bucks' home ranges, it's going to be difficult to consistently hold more than one buck on small properties. Normally you can get one to stick around, and to get another one, that deer needs to be shot, or disperse during the rut (and probably get shot). We've had about 3 different deer this year "claim" the property. The first was really old with a terrible rack. When he stopped showing up on cam, another one I had pictures of 2 years previously showed up and was a constant until I shot him. Then a better deer returned that was around a lot last year. But never more than one deer consistently at the same time.
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 2, 2018 9:22:40 GMT -6
You guys are kind of confirming what I've suspected for quite a while. I've often felt that you can only have so many mature bucks on your place, and antler size doesn't necessarily dictate dominance. I view buck management much like crappie management in that sometimes bucks need thinned out so that the one's you "want" to be around will stay. I would much rather have one 6.5 yr old, two 4.5yr olds, and four 3.5yr olds on my place than six 3.5yr olds. Many feel that shooting any buck under 5.5yr old should be avoided at all costs, but what if the majority of the 3 year olds (and all of the 4yr olds) bucks leave due to social dynamics. Then you have a perpetuation of only having 3 and 4yr old bucks staying on your place, and even though you are letting bucks grow older by not shooting any of them you aren't keeping any on your property because there is no room.
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Post by wklman on Dec 2, 2018 9:57:19 GMT -6
Big swamp bottoms. Without having a big sanctuary area where man can't go I'd be shit outta luck in Minnesota. Most bucks love their seclusion and without it it's tough to hold even 1.
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Post by Freeborn on Dec 2, 2018 11:05:50 GMT -6
You guys are confirming what I was thinking but hoping for a different answer. If that is the case what are your thoughts on quality 3.5 bucks that haven't hit their maturity, will they return to your property or just the general area? Part of the reason we let quality young bucks walk is so they will return as bigger bucks.
Currently on my place the deer will winter if the weather is not severe and the neighborhood has food. I plant 3 acres of beans and corn which keeps deer until Jan-Feb of the next year but the neighbor leaves many acres which keeps deer close.
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Post by terrifictom on Dec 2, 2018 11:43:30 GMT -6
You guys are confirming what I was thinking but hoping for a different answer. If that is the case what are your thoughts on quality 3.5 bucks that haven't hit their maturity, will they return to your property or just the general area? Part of the reason we let quality young bucks walk is so they will return as bigger bucks. Currently on my place the deer will winter if the weather is not severe and the neighborhood has food. I plant 3 acres of beans and corn which keeps deer until Jan-Feb of the next year but the neighbor leaves many acres which keeps deer close. From what I saw this year, the buck I took last year must of been a bully as hardly any bucks were calling my land home before I shot him. After I shot him other bucks became more frequent and this year I had a lot of 1, 2 and 3 year olds come and go. Also had a lot more busted racks.
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Post by wklman on Dec 2, 2018 11:43:34 GMT -6
You guys are confirming what I was thinking but hoping for a different answer. If that is the case what are your thoughts on quality 3.5 bucks that haven't hit their maturity, will they return to your property or just the general area? Part of the reason we let quality young bucks walk is so they will return as bigger bucks. Currently on my place the deer will winter if the weather is not severe and the neighborhood has food. I plant 3 acres of beans and corn which keeps deer until Jan-Feb of the next year but the neighbor leaves many acres which keeps deer close. I think it's a big crap shoot sometimes. With herd dynamics the way they are you never know what buck is dominate and if they're keeping others away. I just shoot to have a couple in the neighborhood and hope they land on my property during hunting season. The one difference would be keeping as many does as possible around to draw bucks in during the rut.
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 2, 2018 13:19:49 GMT -6
In particular on Small Properties. like allot of guys my place is small, particularly my contiguous woods. I'm basically working with 40-50 acres of woods/marsh. I typically have one mature buck on my place but that's it. Depending on the rut I do get cruiser bucks. I typically have 3-4 doe groups but that typically includes small groups of 2-3. First, is it possible to hold 2 or more 4+ year old bucks on 40-50 acres of woods? If it is, what would be the top things you would do to establish this? Throwing out ideas: Establish Dispersed bedding and food plots increase doe groups Jerry, you have visited my place and I have about 100 acres of cover, some of which is not usable by the deer. I don’t even have as many doe groups as you. I think one mature buck and hoping for a cruising buck is as good as it gets, unless you have so many deer that the second old buck had no where to go.
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Post by benmnwi on Dec 2, 2018 14:13:59 GMT -6
Art is right on- if you only have 10 deer per square mile it is very unlikely you could hold 2 mature bucks on a small property. In that case it's unlikely there are 2 mature bucks on 640 acres. Now if you have 75 deer per square mile you might have a chance at holding more bucks on your 40 if you have the best food and cover in the neighborhood.
On my 40 I live on i try to have the thickest cover and the best food in the neighborhood. That holds a bunch of does and I always have a mature buck here during the rut. The big bucks prefer the adjacent large Ag fields in early fall, so I can't compete there. But I can usually bring in the oldest bucks in the neighborhood once they look for does. I've noticed if we kill that buck it seems like a new one fills in quickly.
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Post by mnaaron on Dec 2, 2018 14:47:40 GMT -6
Thick habitat with everything they need in close proximity so they do not need to cross paths which each other and I think biggest deal for holding mature deer is no disturbances/sanctuaries.
They all have individual personalities some roam and some are home bodies. We have a really nice buck now that we can’t get on camera to save our life. Absolute homebody that barely moves out of the sanctuary.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Dec 2, 2018 15:43:12 GMT -6
First of all, what do you want to call a dominant buck? Toughest on the block even thou he may only be 130"? Biggest Rack? Biggest Body? Oldest deer?
Edit: Or could be any of the above?
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