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Post by jbird on Apr 4, 2019 15:19:47 GMT -6
I have 10 plants of 10 different shrubs and trees coming soon from MDC and I am trying to figure out how I want to space them. Some are actual trees (persimmon) some are intermediate shrubs/trees like blackhaw and dogwood, while others are true shrubs (button bush).
I am trying to figure out the spacing so I can then determine the best way to protect them. Not sure if I want to individually protect them or plant them in clusters and then fence in the area (say 25' x 25').
My place in general lacks shrubs...so this is my first attempt to add shrubs with the intent of mother nature to spread them around (maybe with a little help from me). I intend on adding to these over time with additional species to add further diversity.... I want these for cover and a food source for various critters.
So do I:
A - Plant them all in one general area like a nursery setting and protect them on an individual basis?
B - plant them in smaller clusters of say 25' x 25' squares and protect them collectively...but do this in 3 or 4 places around the farm?
I know they all won't survive, I know some will do better in some settings vs others. I just had to give myself a kick in the pants and get this processes started or I would have otherwise found an excuse why not to do it this year.
Plants I have coming:
American Beatutyberry
Buttonbush
Rough leaf dogwood
Aromatic sumac
Ninebark
Blackhaw
Persimmons
Arrowwood
Nannyberry
Spicebush
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Post by badgerfowl on Apr 4, 2019 15:24:07 GMT -6
My best survival on shrubs has been to plant a bunch in small enclosures (10x15 or similar). Individual shrubs protected will survive but when you're planting more than a few, I'd go with group enclosures.
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 4, 2019 15:29:38 GMT -6
I usually go with 6-10' spacing for shrubs. I rarely cage or protect my shrubs in any way, but if you could do that you would likely see much more success and growth.
I think your plan to put them all in one general area and use a cage to block off a whole area would work well if you have enough fencing material available. I believe Art did something similar and had good luck. After several years of growth you could take down the cage and use it in a different shrub planting area.
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Post by batman on Apr 4, 2019 15:47:44 GMT -6
Come plant them in the CWD zone on a parcel they let the DNR manage.
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 4, 2019 20:31:28 GMT -6
I usually go with 6-10' spacing for shrubs. I rarely cage or protect my shrubs in any way, but if you could do that you would likely see much more success and growth. I think your plan to put them all in one general area and use a cage to block off a whole area would work well if you have enough fencing material available. I believe Art did something similar and had good luck. After several years of growth you could take down the cage and use it in a different shrub planting area. I have two larger and several smaller ones for crab apples and a few plums. |
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Post by Freeborn on Apr 4, 2019 21:12:18 GMT -6
I have 10 plants of 10 different shrubs and trees coming soon from MDC and I am trying to figure out how I want to space them. Some are actual trees (persimmon) some are intermediate shrubs/trees like blackhaw and dogwood, while others are true shrubs (button bush). I am trying to figure out the spacing so I can then determine the best way to protect them. Not sure if I want to individually protect them or plant them in clusters and then fence in the area (say 25' x 25'). My place in general lacks shrubs...so this is my first attempt to add shrubs with the intent of mother nature to spread them around (maybe with a little help from me). I intend on adding to these over time with additional species to add further diversity.... I want these for cover and a food source for various critters. So do I: A - Plant them all in one general area like a nursery setting and protect them on an individual basis? B - plant them in smaller clusters of say 25' x 25' squares and protect them collectively...but do this in 3 or 4 places around the farm? I know they all won't survive, I know some will do better in some settings vs others. I just had to give myself a kick in the pants and get this processes started or I would have otherwise found an excuse why not to do it this year. Plants I have coming: American Beatutyberry Buttonbush Rough leaf dogwood Aromatic sumac Ninebark Blackhaw Persimmons Arrowwood Spicebush What are your goals for the shrubs, what are you trying to accomplish? How many shrubs in total are you getting? You will have to let the shrubs get established before they get browsed. |
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Post by jbird on Apr 5, 2019 10:45:05 GMT -6
I have 10 plants of 10 different shrubs and trees coming soon from MDC and I am trying to figure out how I want to space them. Some are actual trees (persimmon) some are intermediate shrubs/trees like blackhaw and dogwood, while others are true shrubs (button bush). I am trying to figure out the spacing so I can then determine the best way to protect them. Not sure if I want to individually protect them or plant them in clusters and then fence in the area (say 25' x 25'). My place in general lacks shrubs...so this is my first attempt to add shrubs with the intent of mother nature to spread them around (maybe with a little help from me). I intend on adding to these over time with additional species to add further diversity.... I want these for cover and a food source for various critters. So do I: A - Plant them all in one general area like a nursery setting and protect them on an individual basis? B - plant them in smaller clusters of say 25' x 25' squares and protect them collectively...but do this in 3 or 4 places around the farm? I know they all won't survive, I know some will do better in some settings vs others. I just had to give myself a kick in the pants and get this processes started or I would have otherwise found an excuse why not to do it this year. Plants I have coming: American Beatutyberry Buttonbush Rough leaf dogwood Aromatic sumac Ninebark Blackhaw Persimmons Arrowwood Spicebush What are your goals for the shrubs, what are you trying to accomplish? How many shrubs in total are you getting? You will have to let the shrubs get established before they get browsed. Goals - plant diversity, cover, wildlife food. Maybe hosts for additional proliferation later. I have 10 of each for a total of 100. I have a very low deer density (lack of cover) and lots of food (100's of acres of corn and soybeans in the area) as it is. I can plant ag beans in a 1/4 acre plot with no protection and they grow just fine (waist high) and produce pods. I WILL protect them to some extent...thus my question as to how best to plant them as that will/may impact how they are protected. |
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Post by jbird on Apr 5, 2019 10:46:54 GMT -6
Come plant them in the CWD zone on a parcel they let the DNR manage. I got low enough deer numbers as it is...I don't need CWD's "help"! |
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Post by jbird on Apr 5, 2019 10:50:31 GMT -6
I usually go with 6-10' spacing for shrubs. I rarely cage or protect my shrubs in any way, but if you could do that you would likely see much more success and growth. I think your plan to put them all in one general area and use a cage to block off a whole area would work well if you have enough fencing material available. I believe Art did something similar and had good luck. After several years of growth you could take down the cage and use it in a different shrub planting area. I have two larger and several smaller ones for crab apples and a few plums. Care to share some details? I'm thinking about 25' square with T posts and either wire (welded or woven) fence or snow fence....not sure how tall I need to go... My concern is spacing as I want as many to live as possible yet sometimes competition is a good thing as well... |
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Post by Freeborn on Apr 5, 2019 12:38:55 GMT -6
What are your goals for the shrubs, what are you trying to accomplish? How many shrubs in total are you getting? You will have to let the shrubs get established before they get browsed. Goals - plant diversity, cover, wildlife food. Maybe hosts for additional proliferation later. I have 10 of each for a total of 100. I have a very low deer density (lack of cover) and lots of food (100's of acres of corn and soybeans in the area) as it is. I can plant ag beans in a 1/4 acre plot with no protection and they grow just fine (waist high) and produce pods. I WILL protect them to some extent...thus my question as to how best to plant them as that will/may impact how they are protected. Shrubs are probably not the best thing for cover as they don’t provide the density that an evergreen will. I have used shrubs/trees (American Plum and Red splendid Crabapple) to create a length of movement across my prairie grass linking one area to the next. I have several of these and the one that works the best is a triple row of these shrubs. The shrubs provide enough cover that deer will use it to funnel between areas. I use this to ambush deer that are using the shrubs to transition from woods to shrubs/PG back to woods.
I have a couple of areas where I have planted the same varieties of shrubs that I will soon be cutting back with the hope they sucker and create a thicket. Unfortunately, this takes many years so if you try it don’t expect quick results.
It doesn’t sound like you need food so I would make that a lower priority. I used tree tubes on my shrubs and that worked well. With your deer numbers it sounds like you could use whatever you want.
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Post by jbird on Apr 5, 2019 15:21:44 GMT -6
Goals - plant diversity, cover, wildlife food. Maybe hosts for additional proliferation later. I have 10 of each for a total of 100. I have a very low deer density (lack of cover) and lots of food (100's of acres of corn and soybeans in the area) as it is. I can plant ag beans in a 1/4 acre plot with no protection and they grow just fine (waist high) and produce pods. I WILL protect them to some extent...thus my question as to how best to plant them as that will/may impact how they are protected. Shrubs are probably not the best thing for cover as they don’t provide the density that an evergreen will. I have used shrubs/trees (American Plum and Red splendid Crabapple) to create a length of movement across my prairie grass linking one area to the next. I have several of these and the one that works the best is a triple row of these shrubs. The shrubs provide enough cover that deer will use it to funnel between areas. I use this to ambush deer that are using the shrubs to transition from woods to shrubs/PG back to woods.
I have a couple of areas where I have planted the same varieties of shrubs that I will soon be cutting back with the hope they sucker and create a thicket. Unfortunately, this takes many years so if you try it don’t expect quick results.
It doesn’t sound like you need food so I would make that a lower priority. I used tree tubes on my shrubs and that worked well. With your deer numbers it sounds like you could use whatever you want.
I'm looking at simply adding blocks or strings of these near plots just to start. I don't plan on feeding the deer with them...most are not really "DEER" plants anyway. I hope the birds like them and help spread the seed. I'm not making screens or the like either, at least not yet. Just trying to add some diversity and if I find something I really like or seems to do really well, then maybe put that to use in some other manner later. These are all just plants I don't currently have that I want to give an honest shot at survival. Some may be thicket forming and others not so much and that's ok. I essentially have only a few species of shrubs currently...elderberry, bladder nut, grey dogwood, wahoo and Jap Bush Honeysuckle (which I am trying to control). My place just generally lacks in the shrub department. |
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Post by sd51555 on Apr 5, 2019 23:24:12 GMT -6
Are you planting an already open area? If you’re lacking cover, Could u fire up the saw and start knocking shit down? Follow up with some gypsum, and lime if u need lime?
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Post by nhmountains on Apr 7, 2019 21:01:53 GMT -6
J-Bird,
Do you have types of hazelnuts? They grow up into bushes with several stems. Provide deer and animal food. One thing you may want to try is planting evergreens in a line between your food areas so deer have edge down the road for travel corridors. Sandburg does this and did it years ago.
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Post by jbird on Apr 8, 2019 10:48:44 GMT -6
Are you planting an already open area? If you’re lacking cover, Could u fire up the saw and start knocking shit down? Follow up with some gypsum, and lime if u need lime? I underwent a selective timber harvest a few years ago and the results have been wonderful. Swinging a chainsaw in a mature timber stand is one of the best habitat improvements I even have done. I was worried sick doing it, but HIGHLY recommend it! The areas I will be planting are either already open areas (currently used for plots) or small openings in the woods. If I really wanted to improve my cover I would convert my tillable to brush....but at $200 an acre annual rent...I can't afford to do that. So my options are limited and why I want to make the most of where I can. |
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Post by jbird on Apr 8, 2019 10:59:36 GMT -6
J-Bird, Do you have types of hazelnuts? They grow up into bushes with several stems. Provide deer and animal food. One thing you may want to try is planting evergreens in a line between your food areas so deer have edge down the road for travel corridors. Sandburg does this and did it years ago. Hazelnuts are certainly on my list of things to add....I just missed the boat on them for this spring. I want to add in some plums as well down the road. I have travel corridors on my place. Just sort of my chance. This works great once the deer I am looking for are on their feet. However the lack of the depth of cover makes holding mature bucks virtually impossible. The shrubs are to increase cover while helping the overall wildlife food supply on a long term low involvement basis on my part. In many cases I am planting areas that where part of plots because my plots are under utilized.... And my current shrub diversity is in the tank. Conifers could be considered but I think I would have to plant them in a larger block than I have available to really seem them be effective. My place is different because I have 50 acres of "cover" in little blocks and narrow strips spread out over 150 acres total....with 100 acres of row crop field that I can't play with from a habitat perspective. I'm just trying to work with what I have and back off of the traditional "food plot" and increase cover if I can. |
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