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Post by smsmith on Jul 15, 2021 8:49:25 GMT -6
Hairy vetch and winter rye is about as close to the ideal soil building pair a guy could get. Of course, that's really, really old news. This was not something I knew. After you posted this, I went out and looked around. The HV is growing great in my hoog, where other stuff is doing ok, but the HV is thriving. Because of your commment and my observation, I ordered an extra 5 lbs to blend into my rye/jap millet/collards blend I've got on standby for the crowned section of my south plot. That clay is gonna need to get broken up. wiscwhip and I were growing HV/winter rye in Juneau Cty., WI at least twenty years ago to try and build up sandy soil. I'm sure farmers in sand counties were doing it long before whip and I ever even heard of it. That combo makes an incredible amount of OM both above and below ground. The only issue is that mowing a thick stand of the combo ain't easy.
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Post by benmnwi on Jul 15, 2021 15:43:21 GMT -6
This was not something I knew. After you posted this, I went out and looked around. The HV is growing great in my hoog, where other stuff is doing ok, but the HV is thriving. Because of your commment and my observation, I ordered an extra 5 lbs to blend into my rye/jap millet/collards blend I've got on standby for the crowned section of my south plot. That clay is gonna need to get broken up. wiscwhip and I were growing HV/winter rye in Juneau Cty., WI at least twenty years ago to try and build up sandy soil. I'm sure farmers in sand counties were doing it long before whip and I ever even heard of it. That combo makes an incredible amount of OM both above and below ground. The only issue is that mowing a thick stand of the combo ain't easy. When you grew HV and winter rye on sand did you see a noticeable improvement in the soil over time? Did you plant both of them in the fall and then terminate them the following summer? I have some sections with really poor, sandy soil that is in a great deer killing location. I struggle with balancing building soil long term and planting stuff to kill deer now. Lately I've been planting stuff to kill deer now.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jul 15, 2021 15:55:17 GMT -6
wiscwhip and I were growing HV/winter rye in Juneau Cty., WI at least twenty years ago to try and build up sandy soil. I'm sure farmers in sand counties were doing it long before whip and I ever even heard of it. That combo makes an incredible amount of OM both above and below ground. The only issue is that mowing a thick stand of the combo ain't easy. When you grew HV and winter rye on sand did you see a noticeable improvement in the soil over time? Did you plant both of them in the fall and then terminate them the following summer? I have some sections with really poor, sandy soil that is in a great deer killing location. I struggle with balancing building soil long term and planting stuff to kill deer now. Lately I've been planting stuff to kill deer now. Best soil builder is buy loads of cow manure if you can’t get some free stuff. Some sand is so bad it grinds up any planted material you were hoping to build OM out of. You can’t get ahead.
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Post by smsmith on Jul 15, 2021 18:12:46 GMT -6
wiscwhip and I were growing HV/winter rye in Juneau Cty., WI at least twenty years ago to try and build up sandy soil. I'm sure farmers in sand counties were doing it long before whip and I ever even heard of it. That combo makes an incredible amount of OM both above and below ground. The only issue is that mowing a thick stand of the combo ain't easy. When you grew HV and winter rye on sand did you see a noticeable improvement in the soil over time? Did you plant both of them in the fall and then terminate them the following summer? I have some sections with really poor, sandy soil that is in a great deer killing location. I struggle with balancing building soil long term and planting stuff to kill deer now. Lately I've been planting stuff to kill deer now. I want to say it was noticeable, but it wasn't measurable via OM test. Yes, planted both in September and terminated the following May/June. Like Mo said, the best OM builder is cow manure. I tried and tried to find someone to purchase some from, but in the sand counties those farmers aren't selling any cow manure. I don't blame them a bit. There were very few farmers of any kind within 15 miles of that old place. I was starting to source some roll offs of composted yard waste from a neighboring county, but about that time my life changed
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Post by sd51555 on Jul 15, 2021 18:35:47 GMT -6
wiscwhip and I were growing HV/winter rye in Juneau Cty., WI at least twenty years ago to try and build up sandy soil. I'm sure farmers in sand counties were doing it long before whip and I ever even heard of it. That combo makes an incredible amount of OM both above and below ground. The only issue is that mowing a thick stand of the combo ain't easy. I struggle with balancing building soil long term and planting stuff to kill deer now. Lately I've been planting stuff to kill deer now. I don't believe they have to be mutually exclusive.
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Post by sd51555 on Sept 19, 2021 7:00:40 GMT -6
I had high hopes I’d get some vetch volunteers in the yard plot with the late mowing. It paid bigly. Even off the edge of the plot in the grass, the regen is terrific.
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Post by sd51555 on Sept 24, 2021 5:16:11 GMT -6
Even my little test patches where I didn’t mow the rye, there is some vetch that is still going. That’s gotta be damn near the top when it comes to bee effectiveness. What other blue or purple blooms that long and competes that well in the wild? I got an email from the green cover guys about vetch this week and the challenges ahead. Everything that’s plaguing everything else is also affecting vetch production and movement around the globe. I’m glad I covered my property while I could.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 24, 2021 8:40:16 GMT -6
Even my little test patches where I didn’t mow the rye, there is some vetch that is still going. That’s gotta be damn near the top when it comes to bee effectiveness. What other blue or purple blooms that long and competes that well in the wild?I got an email from the green cover guys about vetch this week and the challenges ahead. Everything that’s plaguing everything else is also affecting vetch production and movement around the globe. I’m glad I covered my property while I could. leadplant
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Post by sd51555 on Oct 2, 2021 15:30:56 GMT -6
Son of a vetch?
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Post by smsmith on Oct 2, 2021 20:59:06 GMT -6
Even my little test patches where I didn’t mow the rye, there is some vetch that is still going. That’s gotta be damn near the top when it comes to bee effectiveness. What other blue or purple blooms that long and competes that well in the wild?I got an email from the green cover guys about vetch this week and the challenges ahead. Everything that’s plaguing everything else is also affecting vetch production and movement around the globe. I’m glad I covered my property while I could. leadplant Must not have liked the leadplant (Amorpha canescens) reply. So I'll throw Blue false indigo (Baptisia australis) at you.
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Post by Catscratch on Oct 2, 2021 21:54:03 GMT -6
Son of a vetch? That looks like vetch to me.
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Post by sd51555 on Oct 3, 2021 20:34:40 GMT -6
Must not have liked the leadplant (Amorpha canescens) reply. So I'll throw Blue false indigo (Baptisia australis) at you. Can’t say I’ve seen either on my place. Meanwhile, check strips on the HV still Blooming.
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Post by Foggy on Oct 3, 2021 21:24:46 GMT -6
I've read that hairy vetch can turn out to be invasive and problematic with future crops. hard to terminate the chit. Stick with Rye.....much easier and predictable. deer been eating my rye....just sayin. OH....and it's known for a good nitrogen release, great roots, super weed suppressant, good mulch / cover crop, and easy to grow. Why would you look frusther???
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Post by sd51555 on Oct 3, 2021 23:37:58 GMT -6
I've read that hairy vetch can turn out to be invasive and problematic with future crops. hard to terminate the chit. Stick with Rye.....much easier and predictable. deer been eating my rye....just sayin. OH....and it's known for a good nitrogen release, great roots, super weed suppressant, good mulch / cover crop, and easy to grow. Why would you look frusther??? Invasive is a perception. All life is invasive if it's in a place we don't think it should be. I gravitate towards the invasives, but I don't call them that. I call them durable plants. I wouldn't want anything other than durable plants. And don't forget the lesson of the blues and purples. You may get a boat load of snakes if you go rye on rye on rye. But, snakes are good. They will eat the slugs in your rye residue. But you gotta have snake habitat all season. growingformarket.com/articles/many-benefits-of-no-till-farming/print"The Gaetzes allow the rye/vetch to grow to the pollination stage, about 5 feet tall. They walked the rows to break the stems at ground level and plant larger transplants into it. It is an excellent mulch for the growing season and the rye has an allelopathic effect on most weed germination. The first year of no-till practices was wet and there was a slug outbreak in the cover crop. “As the seasons have progressed, we have found that the slugs have been offset by an increase in ground beetles and small critters like garter snakes, and other predators,” Tony said."
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Post by Foggy on Oct 6, 2021 16:34:12 GMT -6
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