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Post by Catscratch on Sept 22, 2020 6:49:58 GMT -6
Question for you nine millimeter guys, what are your thoughts of what occurred in Kenosha? The guy was shot 7 times in the back with what I am guessing is a nine millimeter and did not die. Currently I shoot a 40 but was thinking of going to a nine millimeter carry gun but this has me hesitating. If most encounters are less than 10' apart seems knock down power would be more important than capacity. Accuracy and comfort in handling are number 1 for me. I would rather know my weapon like the back of my hand when stress is high, when you aren't really thinking, when you can't afford a messup... than to have firepower that may or may not hit what I need to hit. I say that because I'll buy gobs of 9 and shoot it a lot. The price of other pistol rounds is prohibitive in that regard (for me). So, I'm more comfortable with my 9's than I am the 45. Home invasion gets a shotgun for the same reason. I can load and aim my shotgun without even thinking. It's had more cases of shells through it during dove and duck seasons than I can count. As long as I can keep from getting shot until I've created distance all is good.
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Post by Tooln on Sept 22, 2020 7:04:11 GMT -6
Question for you nine millimeter guys, what are your thoughts of what occurred in Kenosha? The guy was shot 7 times in the back with what I am guessing is a nine millimeter and did not die. Currently I shoot a 40 but was thinking of going to a nine millimeter carry gun but this has me hesitating. If most encounters are less than 10' apart seems knock down power would be more important than capacity. Round placement is what matters. A 22 will kill if the round is placed in the right spot.
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Post by Freeborn on Sept 22, 2020 7:20:57 GMT -6
Question for you nine millimeter guys, what are your thoughts of what occurred in Kenosha? The guy was shot 7 times in the back with what I am guessing is a nine millimeter and did not die. Currently I shoot a 40 but was thinking of going to a nine millimeter carry gun but this has me hesitating. If most encounters are less than 10' apart seems knock down power would be more important than capacity. Accuracy and comfort in handling are number 1 for me. I would rather know my weapon like the back of my hand when stress is high, when you aren't really thinking, when you can't afford a messup... than to have firepower that may or may not hit what I need to hit. I say that because I'll buy gobs of 9 and shoot it a lot. The price of other pistol rounds is prohibitive in that regard (for me). So, I'm more comfortable with my 9's than I am the 45. Home invasion gets a shotgun for the same reason. I can load and aim my shotgun without even thinking. It's had more cases of shells through it during dove and duck seasons than I can count. As long as I can keep from getting shot until I've created distance all is good. One of the drawbacks I see with the polymer guns is their weight and how it affects muzzle flip. I have thought about buying a metal carry gun just for that reason, more weight therefore more accuracy. I'm thinking a metal carry gun in 40 may provide the combination of accuracy and comfort with more knock down power. I need to go to a gun shop and rent a couple guns and see how they perform.
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Post by Freeborn on Sept 22, 2020 7:29:17 GMT -6
Question for you nine millimeter guys, what are your thoughts of what occurred in Kenosha? The guy was shot 7 times in the back with what I am guessing is a nine millimeter and did not die. Currently I shoot a 40 but was thinking of going to a nine millimeter carry gun but this has me hesitating. If most encounters are less than 10' apart seems knock down power would be more important than capacity. Round placement is what matters. A 22 will kill if the round is placed in the right spot. I'll play devils advocate because I don't think its that simple. Your surprised by a 250 lbs. mugger in a parking ramp, you both snap up and shoot at each other, you catch him in the shoulder with a nine he catches you in the shoulder with a 45, who gets the second shot off first? My point is I think allot of young large men can take a nine millimeter and still be alive enough to do you harm. I know, old debate but still valid.
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Post by Foggy on Sept 22, 2020 7:35:59 GMT -6
I've read quite allot of information on handgun cartridges. Stopping power is debatable on all of em. More dangerous for a self defense issue may be too much power and shooting through walls or other targets (people). Dunno.....but I ended up using 38 special / 357 magnum, and 9mm cartridges in all my handguns just to simplify and keep the ammo costs in line. I guess I also have a 380 ACP Ruger for small cc.....but I dont use that today.
I like the idea of keeping considerable ammo and it being usable by the different weapons I own. I believe getting "properly shot" with any of these guns would slow or stop an attack. I hope I never use 'em for self defense.
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Post by Catscratch on Sept 22, 2020 7:41:41 GMT -6
Round placement is what matters. A 22 will kill if the round is placed in the right spot. I'll play devils advocate because I don't think its that simple. Your surprised by a 250 lbs. mugger in a parking ramp, you both snap up and shoot at each other, you catch him in the shoulder with a nine he catches you in the shoulder with a 45, who gets the second shot off first? My point is I think allot of young large men can take a nine millimeter and still be alive enough to do you harm. I know, old debate but still valid. Very true, and if that's your go-to train of thought get a 45 or 357. When I was training and shooting IDPA I spent considerable amount of time (still practice this actually) drawing my weapon, shooting the first shot at crotch level, then 3 more as fast as possible while holding as good of a vertical line (middle side to side) as possible. This accounts for muzzle flip bringing your point of aim up through the chest area. I practice while walking towards the target, backing away from the target, and moving sideways to the target. All shots are on the move. I imagine people who have had actual training would laugh at how I practice throwing lead, but I like doing it and feel comfortable with my weapons. The way I shoot the last thing I want is to only have 6 rounds in the gun...
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Post by Foggy on Sept 22, 2020 7:56:30 GMT -6
I'll play devils advocate because I don't think its that simple. Your surprised by a 250 lbs. mugger in a parking ramp, you both snap up and shoot at each other, you catch him in the shoulder with a nine he catches you in the shoulder with a 45, who gets the second shot off first? My point is I think allot of young large men can take a nine millimeter and still be alive enough to do you harm. I know, old debate but still valid. Very true, and if that's your go-to train of thought get a 45 or 357. When I was training and shooting IDPA I spent considerable amount of time (still practice this actually) drawing my weapon, shooting the first shot at crotch level, then 3 more as fast as possible while holding as good of a vertical line (middle side to side) as possible. This accounts for muzzle flip bringing your point of aim up through the chest area. I practice while walking towards the target, backing away from the target, and moving sideways to the target. All shots are on the move. I imagine people who have had actual training would laugh at how I practice throwing lead, but I like doing it and feel comfortable with my weapons. The way I shoot the last thing I want is to only have 6 rounds in the gun... For "self defense" you seldom see more than 3 rounds fired. Most often one or two shots would be suffienct to end an attack. OTOH I agree with wanting lots of ammo in a clip. It's just the practicality of carrying that much ammo is not real for me. And.....I much prefer a wheel gun for it's reliability and simplicity. 5 shots is all I got.
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Post by Freeborn on Sept 22, 2020 8:21:26 GMT -6
I've read quite allot of information on handgun cartridges. Stopping power is debatable on all of em. More dangerous for a self defense issue may be too much power and shooting through walls or other targets (people). Dunno.....but I ended up using 38 special / 357 magnum, and 9mm cartridges in all my handguns just to simplify and keep the ammo costs in line. I guess I also have a 380 ACP Ruger for small cc.....but I dont use that today. I like the idea of keeping considerable ammo and it being usable by the different weapons I own. I believe getting "properly shot" with any of these guns would slow or stop an attack. I hope I never use 'em for self defense. Agree on the common ammo across different weapons. I'm at the point I would like to invest in a couple more handguns and that's why I posed the question.
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Post by Freeborn on Sept 22, 2020 8:23:25 GMT -6
I'll play devils advocate because I don't think its that simple. Your surprised by a 250 lbs. mugger in a parking ramp, you both snap up and shoot at each other, you catch him in the shoulder with a nine he catches you in the shoulder with a 45, who gets the second shot off first? My point is I think allot of young large men can take a nine millimeter and still be alive enough to do you harm. I know, old debate but still valid. Very true, and if that's your go-to train of thought get a 45 or 357. When I was training and shooting IDPA I spent considerable amount of time (still practice this actually) drawing my weapon, shooting the first shot at crotch level, then 3 more as fast as possible while holding as good of a vertical line (middle side to side) as possible. This accounts for muzzle flip bringing your point of aim up through the chest area. I practice while walking towards the target, backing away from the target, and moving sideways to the target. All shots are on the move. I imagine people who have had actual training would laugh at how I practice throwing lead, but I like doing it and feel comfortable with my weapons. The way I shoot the last thing I want is to only have 6 rounds in the gun... Your training for real world situations. Nobody wants to be shot in the crotch and working your way up using the flip makes sense.
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Post by Foggy on Sept 22, 2020 9:21:27 GMT -6
Very true, and if that's your go-to train of thought get a 45 or 357. When I was training and shooting IDPA I spent considerable amount of time (still practice this actually) drawing my weapon, shooting the first shot at crotch level, then 3 more as fast as possible while holding as good of a vertical line (middle side to side) as possible. This accounts for muzzle flip bringing your point of aim up through the chest area. I practice while walking towards the target, backing away from the target, and moving sideways to the target. All shots are on the move. I imagine people who have had actual training would laugh at how I practice throwing lead, but I like doing it and feel comfortable with my weapons. The way I shoot the last thing I want is to only have 6 rounds in the gun... Your training for real world situations. Nobody wants to be shot in the crotch and working your way up using the flip makes sense. Kinda why I settled on the 9MM. It's widely available ammo and affordable to shoot. The 9mm guns are available in so many sizes and can get quite compact. I have a Kahr compact 9mm steel gun that shoots quite well and packs 8 rounds.......or a Glock that holds a double stack magazine for 19 rounds......and I have one of those 50 round mags for WWIII. I like that my 38 snub nose can interchange ammo with my cowboy rifles and prefer those short barrled rifles in conjunction with a revolver for home defense.......or a shotgun. When looking at the multiple firearms that can use the same ammo (and still stay affordable) I think it's hard to beat ^ those choices. Still....I appreciate wanting firepower. Maybe multiple weapons is of value to you? I have been known to keep a rifle in the trunk and a handgun in the center council. If given time with a situation that was developing (such as a riot like happening in any city these days).....I'd go to my rifle over a handgun any day. Just racking that action on my cowboy rifles or pump shotgun would stop many perps in their tracks. Also.....under some circumstances where you might feel danger is present.....that trunk gun could become a front seat gun. Hope that day does not come. I guess I think of that couple that was recently defending their home from rioters by gauging their property with AR's. Sometimes just being able to display your ability to defend could be all that is needed?
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Post by Foggy on Sept 22, 2020 9:33:02 GMT -6
Just reflecting more on firearms........ Down in OZ I have taken to keeping a .410 Henry Lever Action Shotgun under the seat in my Jeep. Good as a trail gun for snakes or whatever needs shooting......from game birds and rabbits to targets and perps. I also have a small Ruger SP101 in 357 Magnum stowed on board.
Lately been considering instead of that Ruger Revolver......in getting one of those Bond Arms Deringers. they are switch barrel capable.....but I think one of those in .410/45 Colt would provide some pretty good firepower for a trail gun or self defense. Thin and small enough for CC if wanted. Those .410 self defense rounds are quite awesome if your looking for a potent SD cartridge.
Been buying one new gun every year for some time now. And so far this year have not settled on a new one to learn about. Maybe that Bond derringer would trip my trigger?
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Post by Catscratch on Sept 22, 2020 10:05:34 GMT -6
In keeping with the same train of thought (same ammo for multiple guns) I've been wanting a revolver in 9mm as well as a carbine in 9. Foggy's lever action gun could fit the carbine category real nice!
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Post by badgerfowl on Sept 22, 2020 10:14:55 GMT -6
Your training for real world situations. Nobody wants to be shot in the crotch and working your way up using the flip makes sense. Kinda why I settled on the 9MM. It's widely available ammo and affordable to shoot. The 9mm guns are available in so many sizes and can get quite compact. I have a Kahr compact 9mm steel gun that shoots quite well and packs 8 rounds.......or a Glock that holds a double stack magazine for 19 rounds......and I have one of those 50 round mags for WWIII. I like that my 38 snub nose can interchange ammo with my cowboy rifles and prefer those short barrled rifles in conjunction with a revolver for home defense.......or a shotgun. When looking at the multiple firearms that can use the same ammo (and still stay affordable) I think it's hard to beat ^ those choices. Still....I appreciate wanting firepower. Maybe multiple weapons is of value to you? I have been known to keep a rifle in the trunk and a handgun in the center council. If given time with a situation that was developing (such as a riot like happening in any city these days).....I'd go to my rifle over a handgun any day. Just racking that action on my cowboy rifles or pump shotgun would stop many perps in their tracks. Also.....under some circumstances where you might feel danger is present.....that trunk gun could become a front seat gun. Hope that day does not come. I guess I think of that couple that was recently defending their home from rioters by gauging their property with AR's. Sometimes just being able to display your ability to defend could be all that is needed? This isn't quite true currently. I can't find any 9mm target rounds. I paid $60 for 50 rounds just because I wanted some to shoot and practice with. Every place I check in person has empty shelves. I've had to get it all online, which is mostly out of stock as well.
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Post by Catscratch on Sept 22, 2020 10:40:32 GMT -6
Biden recently talked about 9mm... Typical election year where everybody stocks up on what they fear may soon become unavailable.
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Post by Foggy on Sept 22, 2020 11:34:10 GMT -6
Kinda why I settled on the 9MM. It's widely available ammo and affordable to shoot. The 9mm guns are available in so many sizes and can get quite compact. I have a Kahr compact 9mm steel gun that shoots quite well and packs 8 rounds.......or a Glock that holds a double stack magazine for 19 rounds......and I have one of those 50 round mags for WWIII. I like that my 38 snub nose can interchange ammo with my cowboy rifles and prefer those short barrled rifles in conjunction with a revolver for home defense.......or a shotgun. When looking at the multiple firearms that can use the same ammo (and still stay affordable) I think it's hard to beat ^ those choices. Still....I appreciate wanting firepower. Maybe multiple weapons is of value to you? I have been known to keep a rifle in the trunk and a handgun in the center council. If given time with a situation that was developing (such as a riot like happening in any city these days).....I'd go to my rifle over a handgun any day. Just racking that action on my cowboy rifles or pump shotgun would stop many perps in their tracks. Also.....under some circumstances where you might feel danger is present.....that trunk gun could become a front seat gun. Hope that day does not come. I guess I think of that couple that was recently defending their home from rioters by gauging their property with AR's. Sometimes just being able to display your ability to defend could be all that is needed? This isn't quite true currently. I can't find any 9mm target rounds. I paid $60 for 50 rounds just because I wanted some to shoot and practice with. Every place I check in person has empty shelves. I've had to get it all online, which is mostly out of stock as well. ^ Ammo shortage and abundance come and go all the time. I think it's imperative to plan ahead and keep a few years supply of SD ammo at all times......as well as ample supply of practice and plinking rounds. It's allot more affordable to stock up when supplies are high. That said.....it's helpful to have common chanberings and firearm types so you dont have to inventory too many calibers. I got enough ammo to last me until doomsday now. And I got about 40,000 + primers left over from when I was into varmint shooting and target shooting. I'd sell a few lots of primers if anyone needs some. Fair market prices...have not priced em in a while. I don't think I have pistol primers to spare.....but lots of LR and SR primers. From 1000 to 10,000 or more available. Primers were the one item that you cannot make at home.......so when there was a primer scare some 20 years ago.......I loaded up. . My wife says I'm getting old and need to start paring stuff down. Working on it.......slowly.
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