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Post by smsmith on Sept 29, 2023 12:31:18 GMT -6
I've been checking the interwebs for retail sellers of dolgo seedlings/rootstock. I've yet to find any. You can find them wholesale, but I'm not looking for 25+. I was going to order 3-5 if I could find them for a reasonable price and not pay more for shipping than for the stock. I contacted Ryan at Bluehill and he isn't sure if he'll be able to source any for re-sale. I guess I'll just grow out some of my own apple/crab seeds and use those instead. I put my name on request list at Chief River Nursery and they are supposed to email me when they have dolgo seedlings available. I usually order a pack of 25 to get the lower pricing, but I don't need all of them and can send you some assuming that I'm able to get them at some point. Very nice offer, thanks. I may take you up on it if I don't come up with another answer before then. When I saw Chief River had them on backorder, I kind of assumed there was something going on. edit..I was just looking at Lincoln Oakes nursery. I couldn't find a link to their retail sales, maybe they've stopped selling retail? I did also notice that they aren't accepting wholesale orders yet. I know many re-sellers like Chief River source their stock from Lincoln Oakes. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason for Chief River having them on backorder.
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Post by benmnwi on Sept 29, 2023 13:08:31 GMT -6
I put my name on request list at Chief River Nursery and they are supposed to email me when they have dolgo seedlings available. I usually order a pack of 25 to get the lower pricing, but I don't need all of them and can send you some assuming that I'm able to get them at some point. Very nice offer, thanks. I may take you up on it if I don't come up with another answer before then. When I saw Chief River had them on backorder, I kind of assumed there was something going on. edit..I was just looking at Lincoln Oakes nursery. I couldn't find a link to their retail sales, maybe they've stopped selling retail? I did also notice that they aren't accepting wholesale orders yet. I know many re-sellers like Chief River source their stock from Lincoln Oakes. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason for Chief River having them on backorder. If you happen to find a place that has 25 dolgo seedlings for sale, let me know as I haven't had any luck either. I really just need to plan ahead better and plant a bunch from seed every year so I have a constant supply.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 29, 2023 18:13:34 GMT -6
A guy with a green thumb could make some bucks pulling seeds out of (free for the picking) dolgo/dolgo seedling fruit and growing them out for a year to sell to the habitat crowd.
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Post by benmnwi on Sept 29, 2023 19:55:19 GMT -6
A guy with a green thumb could make some bucks pulling seeds out of (free for the picking) dolgo/dolgo seedling fruit and growing them out for a year to sell to the habitat crowd. I agree there could be some money to be made on this crowd. An apple tree variety pack that included seedling dolgos and some grafted early and late hanging trees would probably be popular in our area. My 10 and 11 year old boys want to make some money and are asking me for ideas and that’s one of them.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 29, 2023 20:12:01 GMT -6
A guy with a green thumb could make some bucks pulling seeds out of (free for the picking) dolgo/dolgo seedling fruit and growing them out for a year to sell to the habitat crowd. I agree there could be some money to be made on this crowd. An apple tree variety pack that included seedling dolgos and some grafted early and late hanging trees would probably be popular in our area. My 10 and 11 year old boys want to make some money and are asking me for ideas and that’s one of them. Awesome, I think there's some easy money to be made there with a bit of adult guidance.
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Post by benmnwi on Sept 29, 2023 20:23:58 GMT -6
I agree there could be some money to be made on this crowd. An apple tree variety pack that included seedling dolgos and some grafted early and late hanging trees would probably be popular in our area. My 10 and 11 year old boys want to make some money and are asking me for ideas and that’s one of them. Awesome, I think there's some easy money to be made there with a bit of adult guidance. My two boys want to know how they can buy land when they get older, so I’m trying to give them some ideas on how to make money at their age. Getting a good job when they get older is a necessity, but they want to make money now on top of their pig selling work that is highly subsidized by me. They help me plant trees for fun and they watch me graft apple trees, so this could be an option.
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Post by Sandbur on Sept 30, 2023 3:00:25 GMT -6
Many years ago, the lady at our SWCD located a bundle of 25 dolgos for me and foggy and I split them. Occasionally I see bundles of 25 at the Benton County SWCD. You could check with your local SWCD.
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Post by Sandbur on Sept 30, 2023 3:38:09 GMT -6
I have heard that there might be another large source of dolgo seeds coming on line. Rumors were that as of a few years ago, one company bought out another and would no longer sell seeds to competitors.
Stu, check with me later today. I might have a source for a few.
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Post by benmnwi on Oct 31, 2023 15:00:44 GMT -6
I contacted Chief River Nursery and they will not have any dolgo seedlings for sale this year for spring 2024 delivery. I also contacted the Lincoln Oakes nursery referenced earlier, but I haven't heard back from them yet. I'm not happy with the quality of the red splendor crabapple seedlings I purchased from our county the last two years, so I'm looking for another tree type to graft to. I'd also like to plant more dolgo seedling crabapples since some of the ones I purchased several years back are looking great.
If anyone has any source for a bundle of 25 dolgo seedlings or some other seedling type, please let me know.
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Post by smsmith on Oct 31, 2023 18:06:17 GMT -6
I'd think Midwest and/or Siberian from Coldstream Farm would do just fine. I know nothing about their Magenta crab, but from the listed parentage (Malus pumila, niedzwetzkyana, and baccata) I'd guess they'd do just fine as well. www.coldstreamfarm.net/product-category/deciduous-shrubs/crabapple/ There are some reported issues with graft unions and baccata. That said, the idea that we're getting "true" Dolgo seedlings for grafting seems a little far fetched to me. I'd imagine the vast majority of Dolgo seedlings being raised/grown are via other Dolgo seedling seeds...so who really knows what the genetics are. Since Dolgo is a selected seedling of baccata, the differences are pretty likely to be minor at best. agresearch.montana.edu/warc/guides/apples/heritage_orchard_management_guide/heritage-fruit-id-guide/apples_id_key/dolgoappleid.htmlI found this blurb while researching crabs for rootstocks "Bernie asserts that the best rootstock for Edmonton is ranetka, which is a siberian crab cross ( anything crossed with a siberian crab – Malus baccata – is a ranetka). In my experience this is the best rootstock for our climate as well. Straight Malus baccata rootstock has compatibility problems with some grafts, and other rootstocks I have tried die out completely or do not express very much vigor in our climate." source - www.apfga.org/new-fruit-variety-trials/I added the emphasis...if anything crossed with malus baccata is a ranetka, then it's very, very likely that many of the Dolgo rootstocks in use/being grown/whatever are closer to a ranetka than a true Dolgo. I guess my take away on all of that ^^^ is that I'd feel very comfortable using baccata, ranetka, dolgo, and manchurian interchangeably. FWIW, Manchurian appears to be another seedling selection of baccata. When I look at the pics on the NRCS/USDA site I linked below, the Manchurian fruit shown sure looks an awful lot like the "bird crab" fruit on some of the wild crabs here. www.nrcs.usda.gov/plantmaterials/ndpmcrb11922.pdfedited to add...if you believe the stuff Elizapples writes, grafting apples to crabapple rootstocks may change the flavor of the apples. She is well respected in the "apple community" I believe. elizapples.com/2016/12/04/rootstocks-do-they-impact-flavor/
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Post by Sandbur on Nov 1, 2023 7:49:27 GMT -6
I'd think Midwest and/or Siberian from Coldstream Farm would do just fine. I know nothing about their Magenta crab, but from the listed parentage (Malus pumila, niedzwetzkyana, and baccata) I'd guess they'd do just fine as well. www.coldstreamfarm.net/product-category/deciduous-shrubs/crabapple/ There are some reported issues with graft unions and baccata. That said, the idea that we're getting "true" Dolgo seedlings for grafting seems a little far fetched to me. I'd imagine the vast majority of Dolgo seedlings being raised/grown are via other Dolgo seedling seeds...so who really knows what the genetics are. Since Dolgo is a selected seedling of baccata, the differences are pretty likely to be minor at best. agresearch.montana.edu/warc/guides/apples/heritage_orchard_management_guide/heritage-fruit-id-guide/apples_id_key/dolgoappleid.htmlI found this blurb while researching crabs for rootstocks "Bernie asserts that the best rootstock for Edmonton is ranetka, which is a siberian crab cross ( anything crossed with a siberian crab – Malus baccata – is a ranetka). In my experience this is the best rootstock for our climate as well. Straight Malus baccata rootstock has compatibility problems with some grafts, and other rootstocks I have tried die out completely or do not express very much vigor in our climate." source - www.apfga.org/new-fruit-variety-trials/I added the emphasis...if anything crossed with malus baccata is a ranetka, then it's very, very likely that many of the Dolgo rootstocks in use/being grown/whatever are closer to a ranetka than a true Dolgo. I guess my take away on all of that ^^^ is that I'd feel very comfortable using baccata, ranetka, dolgo, and manchurian interchangeably. FWIW, Manchurian appears to be another seedling selection of baccata. When I look at the pics on the NRCS/USDA site I linked below, the Manchurian fruit shown sure looks an awful lot like the "bird crab" fruit on some of the wild crabs here. www.nrcs.usda.gov/plantmaterials/ndpmcrb11922.pdfedited to add...if you believe the stuff Elizapples writes, grafting apples to crabapple rootstocks may change the flavor of the apples. She is well respected in the "apple community" I believe. elizapples.com/2016/12/04/rootstocks-do-they-impact-flavor/Interesting information. Crab rootstocks changing the flavor makes me wonder if they alter hardiness. I also read somewhere that crab rootstocks will do better at 1/2 lower pH than apples. I have noticed a few trees on dolgo rootstock just don’t seem to grow and I wonder about compatibility, but my soils vary so much that it I hard to tell. Wodarz on dolgo just hasn’t grown, but I planted it where another tree died out. Maybe the location or disease..
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Post by smsmith on Nov 1, 2023 9:51:08 GMT -6
I'd think Midwest and/or Siberian from Coldstream Farm would do just fine. I know nothing about their Magenta crab, but from the listed parentage (Malus pumila, niedzwetzkyana, and baccata) I'd guess they'd do just fine as well. www.coldstreamfarm.net/product-category/deciduous-shrubs/crabapple/ There are some reported issues with graft unions and baccata. That said, the idea that we're getting "true" Dolgo seedlings for grafting seems a little far fetched to me. I'd imagine the vast majority of Dolgo seedlings being raised/grown are via other Dolgo seedling seeds...so who really knows what the genetics are. Since Dolgo is a selected seedling of baccata, the differences are pretty likely to be minor at best. agresearch.montana.edu/warc/guides/apples/heritage_orchard_management_guide/heritage-fruit-id-guide/apples_id_key/dolgoappleid.htmlI found this blurb while researching crabs for rootstocks "Bernie asserts that the best rootstock for Edmonton is ranetka, which is a siberian crab cross ( anything crossed with a siberian crab – Malus baccata – is a ranetka). In my experience this is the best rootstock for our climate as well. Straight Malus baccata rootstock has compatibility problems with some grafts, and other rootstocks I have tried die out completely or do not express very much vigor in our climate." source - www.apfga.org/new-fruit-variety-trials/I added the emphasis...if anything crossed with malus baccata is a ranetka, then it's very, very likely that many of the Dolgo rootstocks in use/being grown/whatever are closer to a ranetka than a true Dolgo. I guess my take away on all of that ^^^ is that I'd feel very comfortable using baccata, ranetka, dolgo, and manchurian interchangeably. FWIW, Manchurian appears to be another seedling selection of baccata. When I look at the pics on the NRCS/USDA site I linked below, the Manchurian fruit shown sure looks an awful lot like the "bird crab" fruit on some of the wild crabs here. www.nrcs.usda.gov/plantmaterials/ndpmcrb11922.pdfedited to add...if you believe the stuff Elizapples writes, grafting apples to crabapple rootstocks may change the flavor of the apples. She is well respected in the "apple community" I believe. elizapples.com/2016/12/04/rootstocks-do-they-impact-flavor/Interesting information. Crab rootstocks changing the flavor makes me wonder if they alter hardiness. I also read somewhere that crab rootstocks will do better at 1/2 lower pH than apples. I have noticed a few trees on dolgo rootstock just don’t seem to grow and I wonder about compatibility, but my soils vary so much that it I hard to tell. Wodarz on dolgo just hasn’t grown, but I planted it where another tree died out. Maybe the location or disease.. I wouldn't be surprised if local crab/apple rootstocks increased winter hardiness for the grafted/top worked variety. I also wouldn't be surprised if they increased the grafted variety's ability to tolerate less than ideal soil conditions. I'm not sure if I'm convinced that any crabapple rootstock from anywhere in the U.S. would do the same. Maybe, maybe not. I've seen a number of old reports/research saying that commercially available (at that time) seedling rootstocks weren't hardy enough for northern growers, but seed collected from local trees of the same variety (Ussurian pear and baccata crab specifically) and then grown out for rootstocks were indeed more winter hardy. That whole provenance of seed issue that used to be discussed from time to time on the Q forum... Also, keep in mind that some of the clonal rootstocks may produce crabapple sized fruits. At the very least, I'd expect many have some crabapple genes in the mix somewhere. I've seen/read fruit geeks discussing Eliza's statements re: crabs impacting fruit flavor a few times. The discussions usually lead to more questions. Do crab rootstocks also then impact fruit size, fruit brix readings, fruit color, etc. etc. etc. Since almost all of the university research is focused on clonal rootstocks now, I doubt we'll ever really get any solid answers/proof.
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Post by smsmith on Nov 2, 2023 11:09:59 GMT -6
I walked past my two Dolgo seedlings at the end of my morning walk today. Both are still holding fruit. Dolgo seedling #1 has many dime to nickel size fruit hanging. #2 has only a few (it didn't have many to begin with) quarter size fruit hanging. My grafted Dolgo has been bare since right around mid September. I wonder how closely these two seedlings are actually related to Dolgo. Another article I found from the Alaska fruit growers (ya, I'm bored waiting for firearm opener) dealing with crabapple rootstocks www.apfga.org/ranetka-is-a-ranetka-is-a/
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Post by benmnwi on Nov 2, 2023 11:17:35 GMT -6
I walked past my two Dolgo seedlings at the end of my morning walk today. Both are still holding fruit. Dolgo seedling #1 has many dime to nickel size fruit hanging. #2 has only a few (it didn't have many to begin with) quarter size fruit hanging. My grafted Dolgo has been bare since right around mid September. I wonder how closely these two seedlings are actually related to Dolgo. Another article I found from the Alaska fruit growers (ya, I'm bored waiting for firearm opener) dealing with crabapple rootstocks www.apfga.org/ranetka-is-a-ranetka-is-a/My grafted dolgo also lost all of its fruit in September, but I have a couple of dolgo seedlings that are holding fruit as well. These trees have only fruited for 2 years now, so I'm really curious how long the fruit will hold. One of these trees has fruit that is in the 1 1/2-2" diameter range, which is much bigger than my grafted dolgo. That tree has a light fruit load though, so it is possible the fruit size will drop once the fruit quantity increases. But I think there is also a chance that could be a really nice tree that will keep some of the positive dolgo traits while having larger than average fruit size. I'm starting to think that dolgo seedlings are great trees to have as a backbone of a deer orchard.
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Post by smsmith on Nov 2, 2023 11:49:12 GMT -6
I walked past my two Dolgo seedlings at the end of my morning walk today. Both are still holding fruit. Dolgo seedling #1 has many dime to nickel size fruit hanging. #2 has only a few (it didn't have many to begin with) quarter size fruit hanging. My grafted Dolgo has been bare since right around mid September. I wonder how closely these two seedlings are actually related to Dolgo. Another article I found from the Alaska fruit growers (ya, I'm bored waiting for firearm opener) dealing with crabapple rootstocks www.apfga.org/ranetka-is-a-ranetka-is-a/My grafted dolgo also lost all of its fruit in September, but I have a couple of dolgo seedlings that are holding fruit as well. These trees have only fruited for 2 years now, so I'm really curious how long the fruit will hold. One of these trees has fruit that is in the 1 1/2-2" diameter range, which is much bigger than my grafted dolgo. That tree has a light fruit load though, so it is possible the fruit size will drop once the fruit quantity increases. But I think there is also a chance that could be a really nice tree that will keep some of the positive dolgo traits while having larger than average fruit size. I'm starting to think that dolgo seedlings are great trees to have as a backbone of a deer orchard. Get those boys of yours growing some for you (and maybe for other habitat geeks) sheffields.com/seeds/Malus/sp
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