|
Post by Sandbur on Nov 19, 2020 18:02:12 GMT -6
DNR doesnt want more deer number 1. Look at this year. they predicted 200k killed. We are WAYYYYY off that mark. It will not result in pretty decisions next year if we have an average winter. My question is more of a statement. Hunters today want to shoot now. You arent going to win them over saying that 100 lb doe this year will be 130 next year. Or that forkie will be a small 8 and bigger body next year. aint gonna happen. I would love it, you would love it, we live in MN and it is what it is. If we don’t kill enough deer, they say we need to kill more as the numbers are too high. If we kill a lot of deer, they use the kill to estimate population and say the kill indicates numbers are too high. Reports I hear from zone 1 are not good this year.
|
|
|
Post by Bwoods11 on Nov 19, 2020 18:18:19 GMT -6
Why would Zone 1 suddenly be any better? When nothing has been done to change the season structure? Only change was adding a youth hunt.
|
|
|
Post by kooch on Nov 19, 2020 18:31:22 GMT -6
Plenty of deer in my neighborhood this year. I'm just a shitty hunter. Other guys were killing decent bucks, they just had bigger bait piles.
|
|
|
Post by sd51555 on Nov 19, 2020 18:48:15 GMT -6
Just hang tight. It won't be long and hunter numbers will decline faster. I think as the camp chiefs die or quit, those entire camps will fall apart. It's a lot of damn work putting on the hunt, and I just don't see the willingness to take up the torch by the next generation, not when that land can be sold for toys they can use the other 363 days of the year. Someone has to be the volunteer and park tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in a no-income hunting parcel, pay the ownership costs, and do the work.
I'm not saying all deer hunters will quit, but I could see the numbers fall 4-5%/year once this gets going. Then we'll move to 60 day rifle seasons, ten tags per guy and all that.
That's when the DNR will have to pivot quickly to non-hunter control mechanisms.
|
|
|
Post by smsmith on Nov 19, 2020 19:25:57 GMT -6
MN is never (at least in my lifetime) going to be a state where Republicans win many elections or where deer are managed for big bucks/numbers of deer. It simply isn't gonna happen. Wayyyyyy too much inertia to overcome. I believe I have my property at the point where I'll have a legit shot at a 125" or better buck every year between bow and gun. I think that's about as good as most folks can hope for. If I had the means to own/control a square mile or two here, I think I could have hunting on par with most anywhere in the U.S.
|
|
|
Post by Sandbur on Nov 20, 2020 5:41:52 GMT -6
MN is never (at least in my lifetime) going to be a state where Republicans win many elections or where deer are managed for big bucks/numbers of deer. It simply isn't gonna happen. Wayyyyyy too much inertia to overcome. I believe I have my property at the point where I'll have a legit shot at a 125" or better buck every year between bow and gun. I think that's about as good as most folks can hope for. If I had the means to own/control a square mile or two here, I think I could have hunting on par with most anywhere in the U.S. Good answer.
|
|
|
Post by Sandbur on Nov 20, 2020 5:45:03 GMT -6
Just hang tight. It won't be long and hunter numbers will decline faster. I think as the camp chiefs die or quit, those entire camps will fall apart. It's a lot of damn work putting on the hunt, and I just don't see the willingness to take up the torch by the next generation, not when that land can be sold for toys they can use the other 363 days of the year. Someone has to be the volunteer and park tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in a no-income hunting parcel, pay the ownership costs, and do the work. I'm not saying all deer hunters will quit, but I could see the numbers fall 4-5%/year once this gets going. Then we'll move to 60 day rifle seasons, ten tags per guy and all that. That's when the DNR will have to pivot quickly to non-hunter control mechanisms. Covid and reduced numbers of hunters at camps has accelerated this. Many won’t return to hunt next year or the year after if shutdowns continue. There may be some increase in hunting for those who live and hunt in the local area.
|
|
|
Post by smsmith on Nov 20, 2020 7:35:04 GMT -6
Just hang tight. It won't be long and hunter numbers will decline faster. I think as the camp chiefs die or quit, those entire camps will fall apart. It's a lot of damn work putting on the hunt, and I just don't see the willingness to take up the torch by the next generation, not when that land can be sold for toys they can use the other 363 days of the year. Someone has to be the volunteer and park tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in a no-income hunting parcel, pay the ownership costs, and do the work. I'm not saying all deer hunters will quit, but I could see the numbers fall 4-5%/year once this gets going. Then we'll move to 60 day rifle seasons, ten tags per guy and all that. That's when the DNR will have to pivot quickly to non-hunter control mechanisms. Covid and reduced numbers of hunters at camps has accelerated this. Many won’t return to hunt next year or the year after if shutdowns continue. There may be some increase in hunting for those who live and hunt in the local area.I could be wrong, but I see nothing but better and better hunting on my parcel in the coming years. As long as the north neighbors don't sell or become top notch hunters, things should only get better. The aholes who hunt my south line were fewer in number this year and didn't even hunt the second weekend. I hope that group quits hunting all together. All in all, this was one of the quietest deer seasons we've heard since living here.
|
|
|
Post by Sandbur on Nov 20, 2020 8:21:30 GMT -6
Covid and reduced numbers of hunters at camps has accelerated this. Many won’t return to hunt next year or the year after if shutdowns continue. There may be some increase in hunting for those who live and hunt in the local area.I could be wrong, but I see nothing but better and better hunting on my parcel in the coming years. As long as the north neighbors don't sell or become top notch hunters, things should only get better. The aholes who hunt my south line were fewer in number this year and didn't even hunt the second weekend. I hope that group quits hunting all together. All in all, this was one of the quietest deer seasons we've heard since living here. Things are a bit quieter in my area and I see less road hunters as compared to twenty years ago. Those that have a place to hunt and want to shoot a deer can usually do so. We have enough venison and did not hunt as hard. I won’t muzzy hunt this year and might take the bow out for a doe hunt. Doubt I will shoot anything as we don’t need the meat.
|
|
|
Post by Bwoods11 on Nov 20, 2020 9:25:33 GMT -6
MN is never (at least in my lifetime) going to be a state where Republicans win many elections or where deer are managed for big bucks/numbers of deer. It simply isn't gonna happen. Wayyyyyy too much inertia to overcome. I believe I have my property at the point where I'll have a legit shot at a 125" or better buck every year between bow and gun. I think that's about as good as most folks can hope for. If I had the means to own/control a square mile or two here, I think I could have hunting on par with most anywhere in the U.S. The key there is in your lifetime (or mine) I am 52. I don't understand it.. It is not just the gun season timing, it is the 16 day muzzy season, party hunting so that everyone hunts all year. A taxidermist explained it to me very well the other day..... he is 60 years old and probably one of the most knowledgeable hunters I know..
He said Minnesota has the best overall habitat in the Midwest, with Wisconsin being close or maybe better in certain counties. Yet we have a gun season that is too long for it's timing. Hunters are better now, warm blinds, better guns (slug wise) and they have time to sit out there longer in more comfortable conditions. The rut makes the bucks vulnerable and the odds they don't move in front of a hunter in 9 days is a long shot. Then if they survive, they have to make it through 16 days of muzzy season in the same blinds, the same guys that maybe tagged their buck on someone else's tag. Public land is a daily barrage of hunters.
With cameras, scents, clothing improved, we are just better hunters. It was a very interesting conversation. I looked back at one of my zones, and in the 1990's and early 2000, our zone was harvesting way more bucks every year and the quality was considerably better. The age structure has been shot. Very simple. Every change made in Minnesota in the past 20 years has been negative for deer hunting if you are not a brown it's down hunter.
I agree with Stu, unless the MDHA is behind it, it probably won't happen. I don't mind calling them out, I think they are partly responsible for the demise of MN as a great deer hunting state... Now pushing rifles statewide!
|
|
|
Post by sd51555 on Nov 20, 2020 9:35:11 GMT -6
Nobody wants the rifle hunt moved except those that do. Its clear the power is focused on keeping a boot on the neck of the herd. And the power has all the power. Now, I wonder if they wouldn't get antlerless harvest up if they did move it out of the rut. Imagine the does still focused on food, and the bucks hunkered down being invisible. The meat oriented should have fewer chances at a buck and end up eating doe.
But again, a better buck structure would also likely lead to fewer guys shooting does when they know there are more big bucks around.
|
|
|
Post by batman on Nov 20, 2020 9:45:30 GMT -6
I agree with Stu, unless the MDHA is behind it, it probably won't happen. I don't mind calling them out, I think they are partly responsible for the demise of MN as a great deer hunting state... Now pushing rifles statewide!
MDHA as a group or Czar Engwall? The one top brass at MDHA gives 2 shits what his membership wants. He is a cog in the swamp.
|
|
|
Post by smsmith on Nov 20, 2020 9:56:58 GMT -6
Nobody wants the rifle hunt moved except those that do. Its clear the power is focused on keeping a boot on the neck of the herd. And the power has all the power. Now, I wonder if they wouldn't get antlerless harvest up if they did move it out of the rut. Imagine the does still focused on food, and the bucks hunkered down being invisible. The meat oriented should have fewer chances at a buck and end up eating doe. But again, a better buck structure would also likely lead to fewer guys shooting does when they know there are more big bucks around. That to me is the only "selling point" that may lead to moving the season. Every year MN deer hunters shoot more bucks than does. That's just dumb from a herd management perspective.
|
|
|
Post by batman on Nov 20, 2020 10:00:16 GMT -6
The goal of the MN DNR is to erase any value deer may have. Any action they have done for decades has to pass this one test.
|
|
|
Post by smsmith on Nov 20, 2020 10:01:39 GMT -6
MN is never (at least in my lifetime) going to be a state where Republicans win many elections or where deer are managed for big bucks/numbers of deer. It simply isn't gonna happen. Wayyyyyy too much inertia to overcome. I believe I have my property at the point where I'll have a legit shot at a 125" or better buck every year between bow and gun. I think that's about as good as most folks can hope for. If I had the means to own/control a square mile or two here, I think I could have hunting on par with most anywhere in the U.S. The key there is in your lifetime (or mine) I am 52. I don't understand it.. It is not just the gun season timing, it is the 16 day muzzy season, party hunting so that everyone hunts all year. A taxidermist explained it to me very well the other day..... he is 60 years old and probably one of the most knowledgeable hunters I know..
He said Minnesota has the best overall habitat in the Midwest, with Wisconsin being close or maybe better in certain counties. Yet we have a gun season that is too long for it's timing. Hunters are better now, warm blinds, better guns (slug wise) and they have time to sit out there longer in more comfortable conditions. The rut makes the bucks vulnerable and the odds they don't move in front of a hunter in 9 days is a long shot. Then if they survive, they have to make it through 16 days of muzzy season in the same blinds, the same guys that maybe tagged their buck on someone else's tag. Public land is a daily barrage of hunters.
With cameras, scents, clothing improved, we are just better hunters. It was a very interesting conversation. I looked back at one of my zones, and in the 1990's and early 2000, our zone was harvesting way more bucks every year and the quality was considerably better. The age structure has been shot. Very simple. Every change made in Minnesota in the past 20 years has been negative for deer hunting if you are not a brown it's down hunter.
I agree with Stu, unless the MDHA is behind it, it probably won't happen. I don't mind calling them out, I think they are partly responsible for the demise of MN as a great deer hunting state... Now pushing rifles statewide!
I don't disagree with you Kurt, not one bit (I do think WI has better deer habitat on a statewide basis though). All I know from my relatively short time in this state is that unless the MDHA pushes something it ain't gonna happen. I can't tell you how many email exchanges I had with Ron Kresha and Paul Gazelka (usually Gazelka's aide I guess) asking for help in making changes to the MNDNR where they'd ask me "what does MDHA think about it?"
|
|