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Post by Reagan on Sept 3, 2022 8:04:41 GMT -6
I’ve spent some time watching the Steve Hayes videos this morning and I’m motivated to do more. In the last two years I’ve grafted persimmon and some crab apples onto existing trees. I’m ready to take the plunge and start a small orchard of people apples. Maybe I will end up with a future of spraying pruning and apple care even though 6 months ago I felt I didn’t have the time. Eventually the nest will be empty and I should have more time. Might as well get some more trees in the ground.
So, what is a good source for rootstock? I’d like to buy some stock plus scion and graft my own mix versus buying larger trees. Probably start with 6-12 trees. I had a bunch of info sites saved on my work computer but a crash caused me to lose most of them.
B118 is often mentioned as a good rootstock choice. But some people on the other site talk about them leaning. I’ll be 50 next year if that should factor into my choices of trees and seeing fruit.
I’m zone 6, CAR is everywhere. The family likes these apples when we buy from a local orchard. I’ll need to check them for disease resistance.
Melrose Winesap Jonahgold Gala Fuji Envy Honey crisp
Where do y’all buy your roots and should I do anything other than b118?
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Post by smsmith on Sept 3, 2022 8:18:27 GMT -6
I’ve spent some time watching the Steve Hayes videos this morning and I’m motivated to do more. In the last two years I’ve grafted persimmon and some crab apples onto existing trees. I’m ready to take the plunge and start a small orchard of people apples. Maybe I will end up with a future of spraying pruning and apple care even though 6 months ago I felt I didn’t have the time. Eventually the nest will be empty and I should have more time. Might as well get some more trees in the ground. So, what is a good source for rootstock? I’d like to buy some stock plus scion and graft my own mix versus buying larger trees. Probably start with 6-12 trees. I had a bunch of info sites saved on my work computer but a crash caused me to lose most of them. B118 is often mentioned as a good rootstock choice. But some people on the other site talk about them leaning. I’ll be 50 next year if that should factor into my choices of trees and seeing fruit. I’m zone 6, CAR is everywhere. The family likes these apples when we buy from a local orchard. I’ll need to check them for disease resistance. Melrose Winesap Jonahgold Gala Fuji Envy Honey crisp Where do y’all buy your roots and should I do anything other than b118? Welcome to the sickness Unless you have sandy soil, I'd eliminate b118 as a choice. You don't need the winter hardiness b118 offers and they do have a tendency to be leaners. Down by you, I'd go with MM111 as far as clonal root options go. I can't offer any advice on the "G" series of rootstocks, it's quite possible they would be better in your location. If the intention is people apples, I would personally stick with clonal rootstocks rather than seedling (Antonovka, Dolgo, Ranetka). MM111 is usually widely available. Most of what I've bought has been from Burnt Ridge Nursery www.burntridgenursery.com/M111-EMLA111-ROOTSTOCK-Malus-sp/productinfo/NSRTM111/. I believe One Green World also sells them in small quantities. I'm sure there are plenty of other options for purchasing as well. A couple trees on M7 would get you fruit more quickly if that's a goal. M7 was the industry standard for many years (it may still be). They won't make a full size tree, but they'll get big enough to survive deer browsing and should be free standing when mature. As far as your variety choices, the only one I've grown is Honeycrisp. It is not an easy variety to grow and down by you the fruit may not be all that tasty (it's a U of MN release, designed to be grown in cool/cold climates). You can sure try growing it if you want though. Envy is a club apple. Not accessible for us lowly peon growers. If there are any orchards near you, it would be worth your time to strike up a conversation with the owners/orchardists. www.ohioapples.com/find-our-orchards/
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Post by Reagan on Sept 3, 2022 8:39:02 GMT -6
I started chatting up a local orchard owner the last couple of years. He doesn’t graft which surprised me. He Is not into sharing much info. I know when he wants more trees he buys bigger trees and plants them. Another orchard farther away kept telling me I want dwarf trees. “More trees per acre” was the reasoning. Im not sure he understands what deer can do to a remote land owner’s small trees. I’m not looking for a commercial operation. I just want apples the family can eat. Maybe make cider some day.
I started making the family favorite apple list last fall. The local guys grows many of them but some on the list we have just purchased at the store. Most in my family are not a fan of the red or yellow delicious which is why I started listing what they did like. I’ll make a list of what works for the local orchard and use that as a start point.
A lot of my soil can be wet even on some hillsides. In some places it seeps out from springs unless we get into drought. A big problem is the strip mine activity from many years ago. Some dirt is mostly rock and other spots it’s better. The reclaim was not consistent. I need to do some shovel research this weekend but I’m pretty sure I know where the orchard will be. If I get crazy, I might end up with a couple of orchard locations but this year I will start with one.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 3, 2022 8:46:49 GMT -6
Wet soil and apples don't go together very well. If your desired locations are indeed wet, I'd definitely stick with MM111. Dolgo and Antonovka would also be worth trying in wet soil, but since they're seedlings some may do okay and others won't.
I'm guessing your soil is pretty acidic. If so, I'd get some lime down on your future orchard sites as soon as you can.
FWIW...red and yellow delicious apples from your own trees are very different than from the store.
More trees per acre is what orchards are focused on. More trees, more fruit, more profit. Stay away from true dwarf rootstocks.
As far as varieties go, you should be able to easily obtain scions for most of what you previously listed.
Oh yeah, as far as CAR goes you should be able to effectively deal with that for most varieties with a few timely applications of myclobutanil (Immunox, Eagle, Rally). If you're not going to spray, then I'd definitely research each of your desired varieties for CAR susceptibility.
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Post by Reagan on Sept 3, 2022 13:50:11 GMT -6
Thanks for the info.
I have mostly hills so the ground isn’t wet like a swamp or anything. I do have wet spots coming out of the hills but they can be avoided.
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Post by Sandbur on Sept 3, 2022 16:47:00 GMT -6
I am not much help on the rootstock for you. Stu’s advice sounds good. It sounds like dolgo rootstock is hard to get.
If you need scion, I will gladly send you some.
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Post by Sandbur on Sept 3, 2022 16:50:15 GMT -6
How far are you from Hocking Hills orchard? I think it is also a B and B where you can taste apples.
I would visit there and pick the owners mind. He might be busy this time of year. He also sells scion. 1600 varieties of trees.
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Post by Reagan on Jan 18, 2023 15:09:33 GMT -6
Been dragging my feet but I finally did it. Order placed for 20 rootstock. Plan to graft from my existing deer crabs planted last year and I bought some scion of liberty enterprise and a honey crisp for the hell of it.
Added some elderberry sticks that will start life here at the house.
My cousin will be taking some of the apples after I graft. Some grafting sweat equity will help fund the purchase.
Two years of grafting mostly persimmon with a little bit of apple for training. I think I’m ready for the next step.
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Post by nhmountains on Jan 18, 2023 17:40:14 GMT -6
Been dragging my feet but I finally did it. Order placed for 20 rootstock. Plan to graft from my existing deer crabs planted last year and I bought some scion of liberty enterprise and a honey crisp for the hell of it. Added some elderberry sticks that will start life here at the house. My cousin will be taking some of the apples after I graft. Some grafting sweat equity will help fund the purchase. Two years of grafting mostly persimmon with a little bit of apple for training. I think I’m ready for the next step. M111?
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Post by smsmith on Jan 18, 2023 18:45:50 GMT -6
Good for you Reagan, hope you get lots of "takes"
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Post by Reagan on Jan 18, 2023 20:20:45 GMT -6
Yep. M111. I listened to Stu
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Post by nhmountains on Jan 19, 2023 7:13:16 GMT -6
Yep. M111. I listened to Stu The only thing I noticed with M111 is it starts roots very easily if the bark is damp so you need to be careful after grafting not to get moist sand or sawdust up near the graft Union or you’ll have roots growing up there. I like this Mainer’s accent. He uses M111 for thousands of grafts a year. He swears by M111
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Post by Reagan on Jan 19, 2023 8:04:00 GMT -6
Good video. Thanks
He does talk kinda funny.
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Post by Reagan on Feb 19, 2023 7:36:08 GMT -6
How about timing? When do you guys bench graft? I’m thinking I should start a month before you.
In the video he lets the roots get warm inside for a couple of weeks before grafting.
My rootstock is coming first of April. I think I need to get it earlier. I also need to add a couple pear roots since I cut some unexpected pear scion a week ago.
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Post by benmnwi on Feb 19, 2023 8:07:23 GMT -6
April 1st will work fine. My rootstock typically arrives in late April or early may and I’ve always had good luck. Just keep the scion refrigerated and prevent them from drying out and you will be good to go.
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