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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 17, 2018 9:22:51 GMT -6
Ha! I don't post over there but have looked at the bogleheads forum on and off for 5+ years. A few years ago they started getting very strict about topics/posts. If they really knew me, they wouldn’t have thought twice about that post. Just sayin....
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 19, 2018 19:48:07 GMT -6
How you guys liking your Facebook now?
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Post by sd51555 on Mar 19, 2018 20:31:20 GMT -6
How you guys liking your Facebook now? Don’t own it. Never did, never will. I called it obsolete 6 years ago.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 20, 2018 20:33:47 GMT -6
Ok all you smart guys, what do you know about the risk and reward of high yield corporate bond mutual funds? would you make them a small part of your investment portfolio? What say yee?
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Post by sd51555 on Mar 20, 2018 20:45:45 GMT -6
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 20, 2018 20:53:47 GMT -6
My thinking was let the rates go up, the bond fund go down, then buy them. Someone must be buying them at vanguard. They have a hell of a fund for them. VWESX
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Post by Foggy on Mar 20, 2018 21:06:45 GMT -6
Bond funds are a very strange critter. you have NO control of the duration of the bonds. I have tried to like bond funds in the past.....but may never own one....or suggest another human own one.....ever again. They have a way of getting in your shorts like no other investment. Better you own the bonds directly and get some control over the decisions made......IMHO.
A bond "ladder" can work well for many......but a "fund" has no timelines that suit most of the owners.....and thus they screw everyone.
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Post by sd51555 on Mar 20, 2018 21:40:04 GMT -6
My thinking was let the rates go up, the bond fund go down, then buy them. Someone must be buying them at vanguard. They have a hell of a fund for them. VWESX This is a classic reason I don't like mutual funds. They are bound by fund objectives, whether they're on a near-certain collision course or not. You're right, there may be a time to get back into them, but it won't be for a few years. I wish some of the companies that are cheap right now would borrow a few hundred billion while the gettin is good and gobble up their own shares. Lots of cash rich, high yield, low to no-growth dividend stocks are dirt cheap right now.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 21, 2018 6:01:52 GMT -6
My thinking was let the rates go up, the bond fund go down, then buy them. Someone must be buying them at vanguard. They have a hell of a fund for them. VWESX This is a classic reason I don't like mutual funds. They are bound by fund objectives, whether they're on a near-certain collision course or not. You're right, there may be a time to get back into them, but it won't be for a few years. I wish some of the companies that are cheap right now would borrow a few hundred billion while the gettin is good and gobble up their own shares. Lots of cash rich, high yield, low to no-growth dividend stocks are dirt cheap right now. The problem with buying a individual stock at my age is if it goes down, it may be the pool boy and the barracuda watching it go back up if it takes a long time. Mutual funds spread the risk out allowing some failures to be offset by more success's. You won't hit the big one that may get you a huge chunk of cash with one good stock, but you won't lose that huge chunk of cash either. Same with bonds, not everyone in a bond fund will default, and history shows that with some good mutual funds. So bonds are risky, but so are stocks. Funds limit the the risk, and as a gambling man, I will and have always taken some calculated risk with investing. There is no more risk than planting a crop in the field, hoping it grows good and having a good price to sell it at. Mutual funds are less a risk to me than farming.
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Post by sd51555 on Mar 21, 2018 7:27:46 GMT -6
This is a classic reason I don't like mutual funds. They are bound by fund objectives, whether they're on a near-certain collision course or not. You're right, there may be a time to get back into them, but it won't be for a few years. I wish some of the companies that are cheap right now would borrow a few hundred billion while the gettin is good and gobble up their own shares. Lots of cash rich, high yield, low to no-growth dividend stocks are dirt cheap right now. The problem with buying a individual stock at my age is if it goes down, it may be the pool boy and the barracuda watching it go back up if it takes a long time. Mutual funds spread the risk out allowing some failures to be offset by more success's. You won't hit the big one that may get you a huge chunk of cash with one good stock, but you won't lose that huge chunk of cash either. Same with bonds, not everyone in a bond fund will default, and history shows that with some good mutual funds. So bonds are risky, but so are stocks. Funds limit the the risk, and as a gambling man, I will and have always taken some calculated risk with investing. There is no more risk than planting a crop in the field, hoping it grows good and having a good price to sell it at. Mutual funds are less a risk to me than farming. Wait a minute. You’ve been busting my balls for being spread out, and now you’re in favor of it?
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 21, 2018 7:59:03 GMT -6
The problem with buying a individual stock at my age is if it goes down, it may be the pool boy and the barracuda watching it go back up if it takes a long time. Mutual funds spread the risk out allowing some failures to be offset by more success's. You won't hit the big one that may get you a huge chunk of cash with one good stock, but you won't lose that huge chunk of cash either. Same with bonds, not everyone in a bond fund will default, and history shows that with some good mutual funds. So bonds are risky, but so are stocks. Funds limit the the risk, and as a gambling man, I will and have always taken some calculated risk with investing. There is no more risk than planting a crop in the field, hoping it grows good and having a good price to sell it at. Mutual funds are less a risk to me than farming. Wait a minute. You’ve been busting my balls for being spread out, and now you’re in favor of it? For you young man, you have time to recover! LOL!
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 21, 2018 8:52:21 GMT -6
And for all you guys listening to what I say, Don't! I will have you so fucked up you will never get out of trouble, but it works for me! LOL!
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Post by Foggy on Mar 21, 2018 9:34:18 GMT -6
A bond mutual fund and a stock mutual fund are two completely different animals. I think owning stock mutual funds makes good sense for most anyone as a good fund manager will outperform most individuals in performace . Bond funds - not so much. The reason a bond fund doesn't work is that the fund' holdings do not "mature" at some date and you cannot control the timing.......as you can when you have a bond ladder with individual holdings.
One reason people like holding individual stocks tho......is that they can control the tax on capital gains much better. In a fund you will pay taxes each year on the growth......whereas with indivuaal stocks you dont pay the capitol gains tax until the year you sell the stock. Case in point: I hold a Health Insurance stock that I have had for about ten years. It is now about 12x worth what I paid for it.....and I have not paid anything in tax on the growth. I may never sell it......and instead it would pass to my heirs at my death AT THE SPEPPED UP VALUE.....and nobody will get taxed. However if I do need to sell it......I will pay capitol gains tax on it....not ordinary income tax.
If this same holding was in a fund......each year I would pay taxes on the gain in value.....so my overall rate of return would be less due to the tax bleed. Still....having to pay capitol gains taxes are not a "bad" thing. However if you can defer taxes.....that is better.
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Post by sd51555 on Mar 21, 2018 11:10:50 GMT -6
I think owning stock mutual funds makes good sense for most anyone as a good fund manager will outperform most individuals in performance. True... If you're holding the right funds at the right time. I have no doubt every single fund manager out there has more info and experience than me. But if any given manager is painted into a box because he's in charge of say, the ACME Medium Cap US Value Fund, that dude has to operate in that box. He may outperform his benchmark, but he's got to stay in his box. He may see a stampede to the moon in large cap growth, and all he can do is wave as they fly by him. I know we're splitting hairs here, but there are nooks and crannies available out there to beat the pros. An individual picker can bring whatever weapon he wants to the fight. The big guys wear many sets of cuffs and shackles due to all the consumer protections. They've certainly got the skill, but they don't have the freedom to use it. All that being said, a good old fashioned asset allocation portfolio is an easy hands off way to do well too. Pick 4-8 ETFs across different areas and rebalance them every 6 months and you'll do great.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 21, 2018 12:51:52 GMT -6
A bond mutual fund and a stock mutual fund are two completely different animals. I think owning stock mutual funds makes good sense for most anyone as a good fund manager will outperform most individuals in performace . Bond funds - not so much. The reason a bond fund doesn't work is that the fund' holdings do not "mature" at some date and you cannot control the timing.......as you can when you have a bond ladder with individual holdings. One reason people like holding individual stocks tho......is that they can control the tax on capital gains much better. In a fund you will pay taxes each year on the growth......whereas with indivuaal stocks you dont pay the capitol gains tax until the year you sell the stock. Case in point: I hold a Health Insurance stock that I have had for about ten years. It is now about 12x worth what I paid for it.....and I have not paid anything in tax on the growth. I may never sell it......and instead it would pass to my heirs at my death AT THE SPEPPED UP VALUE.....and nobody will get taxed. However if I do need to sell it......I will pay capitol gains tax on it....not ordinary income tax. If this same holding was in a fund......each year I would pay taxes on the gain in value..... so my overall rate of return would be less due to the tax bleed. Still....having to pay capitol gains taxes are not a "bad" thing. However if you can defer taxes.....that is better. Defer taxes is fine, until you can't defer any longer. The Capitol Gains may be way worse down the road and may end up costing you more than yearly taxes, know ones knows for sure is the way I look at it. But as of right now. I do everything to defer taxes that I can, but I still pay through the nose. I just put a pile of money in a SEP and the max in a HSA to defer some taxes. Is it worth it? Who the hell knows. But its starting to be a bigger and bigger job to hang on to my money the older I get for some reason. Not having any depreciation left to write off is killing me.
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