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Post by nhmountains on Sept 4, 2017 15:27:46 GMT -6
Here's my grafting report for 2017. Most of these are from GRIN scions except the Colorado Orange, Lime Kiln Gold, Black Mt Red Deer Crab,Orchard Orange, and Westmoreland. This was an awful
year for apple scab here in NH with major orchards having problems as well. These trees received no extra care or spraying all year long except that I watered them twice. Mother Nature rained more than enough for them every week. Last year I had to water every week.
I'm amazed the non GRIN scions taken from here in NH (as well as the Colorado Orange) seemed to be more disease resistant than the GRIN seedlings.
**4 Colorado Orange. The growth produced enough for 6 scions. No scab or car seen.
3 Black Gilliflower. Some scab. Produced enough for 8 scions
4 Brown's Seedling. Lots of scab. Very strong growth circumference. Produced enough for 6 scions
3 Bramleys Seedling. Lots of scab. Produced enough for 4 scions
3 Colby Baldwin Lots of scab. Produced enough for 3 scions
4 Dabinett. Minor scab on one of 4. Produced enough for 4 scions
2 Fallawater Some scab. Produced enough for 4 scions
4 Granite Beauty. Lots of scab. Produced enough for 2 scions
3 Hubbardston . Some scab. Produced enough for 3 scions
4 Keegan Crab. minor scab. Produced enough for 2 scions.
2 Kidd's Orange Red. Minor car spots. No scab. Produced enough for 3 scions.
3 Liberty. Vigorous central leader growth. A couple small scab spots. No scions
**5 Lime Kiln Gold. One had minor scab. Others none. 9 scion sticks
**2 Black Mt Red Deer Crab. No scab or car. No scions
**5 Orchard Orange. No scab or car. Produced enough for 4 scions
2 Padley's Pippin. Small amount of scab. Produced enough for 3 small scions.
2 Merton Worcester. Lots of scab. Slow grow 2 small scions
3 Old Pearmain. Very slow growth. Lots of scab. No scions.
2 Ottersen. Some scab. Produced enough for 2 scions
4 Porter. Small amount of scab on a few. Lots of scion shoots. Produced enough for 8 scions
5 Pine Golden Pippin. Sone minor scab. Produced enough for 5 scions
**3 Westmoreland. No scab or car. Produced enough for 7 scions
4 White Jersey. Very minor scab. Thick short vigorous growth. Produced enough for 2 scions
3 Wealthy. Very minor car spots. No scab. No scions.
5 Whitney Crab. Some scab. Produced enough for 3 scions
3 Wolf River. No car or scab. Vigorous leader growth. No scions
2 Williams Pride. Minor scab. Produced enough for 6 scions.
** = non GRIN
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Post by nhmountains on Sept 6, 2017 6:24:41 GMT -6
If you received GRIN scions or buds post up your results here.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 6, 2017 7:50:52 GMT -6
GRIN scions received and what became of them:
*Sauvignac pear - grafted three to OHxF 97, one successful graft. It is about 1' tall now and showing no signs of disease. It is tubed and will stay that way until next year.
*Vavilov pear - grafted three to OHxF 97, two successful grafts. One is about 2' tall, the other about 18". Both appear healthy with no signs of disease. Both are tubed and will stay that way until next year.
*Waterville pear - grafted three to OHxF 97, one successful graft. It is about 1' tall, no signs of disease, tubed until next year.
*Centennial crab - top worked several scions to existing trees. To the best of my knowledge, only one took and that was on Art's swamp crab. Not much for growth, maybe 3-5". No signs of disease.
*Kazahk 96 07 03 - grafted one to b118 successfully. It is tubed and 2' tall. No signs of disease. I also top worked several scions to an older wild tree. The last I checked those were successful too, but that was over a month ago.
*Egremont Russet - grafted one to Ranetka successfully, lost two that were grafted to wild crab rootstock. Weak growth early on, but since then it has grown to about 18". No signs of disease, tubed.
*Yellow Delicious - grafted 1 to wild crab, 1 to b118, and top worked one. All are successful. All are very vigorous. The two on wild crab and b118 are over 4' tall (in tubes) with no signs of disease.
*Hawkeye - grafted one to b118, two to wild crab. Only the one on b118 took, it is about 3' tall and tubed. No signs of disease.
One observation...it seems trees in 4-5' tubes are impacted lightly, if all, by CAR and scab. Once the tubes are removed, those trees appear to be more susceptible to those diseases. I do have 3 trees that are exceptions to that observation...Granite Beauty (GRIN, 2016), Black Gilliflower (GRIN, 2016), KinderCrisp (gift from Art). All 3 of those got hit hard by CAR and scab while still tubed. I am ready to re-graft those trees to something else next year.
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Post by nhmountains on Sept 6, 2017 17:11:25 GMT -6
The strange thing is my Brown's apple grafts had severe scab issues. Everything I read said it was very scab resistant. I figure this was about as bad a year for scab as could be. Can trees gain resistance as they get larger and older ?
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Post by smsmith on Sept 6, 2017 17:20:16 GMT -6
The strange thing is my Brown's apple grafts had severe scab issues. Everything I read said it was very scab resistant. I figure this was about as bad a year for scab as could be. Can trees gain resistance as they get larger and older ? I don't know. I do know that many fruit tree diseases are complex. Fireblight and scab (not sure on CAR) aren't single "entities"...there are many variations of them. So, what you may have for apple scab there isn't necessarily the identical pathogen I have here (or vice versa). A tree may be locally scab or f.b. resistant in one area and a disease magnet in another. That's one reason why I didn't get all that excited about the Franklin cider apple. It may indeed prove to be a great tree wherever it's grown...or it may prove to be a disease infested POS. |
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Post by nhmountains on Sept 6, 2017 17:32:26 GMT -6
The strange thing is my Brown's apple grafts had severe scab issues. Everything I read said it was very scab resistant. I figure this was about as bad a year for scab as could be. Can trees gain resistance as they get larger and older ? I don't know. I do know that many fruit tree diseases are complex. Fireblight and scab (not sure on CAR) aren't single "entities"...there are many variations of them. So, what you may have for apple scab there isn't necessarily the identical pathogen I have here (or vice versa). A tree may be locally scab or f.b. resistant in one area and a disease magnet in another. That's one reason why I didn't get all that excited about the Franklin cider apple. It may indeed prove to be a great tree wherever it's grown...or it may prove to be a disease infested POS. That's what my data has this year. The cuttings from local NH trees had no scab issues. Many of the GRIN did. If I get these planted in my orchard and my niece's field I'll be done except for frankentrees grafting. That is until I get the itch again. Lol. I've got several rootstock I'm growing in stoolbeds. |
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Post by smsmith on Sept 6, 2017 17:38:31 GMT -6
I imagine these diseases and their variations is at least one big reason why years ago maya told people to just grow basic, consistently disease resistant (proven in many locations through research) apples like Liberty, Enterprise, Pristine, and Goldrush. Where's the fun in that though  ? |
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Post by Sandbur on Sept 7, 2017 6:15:52 GMT -6
I imagine these diseases and their variations is at least one big reason why years ago maya told people to just grow basic, consistently disease resistant (proven in many locations through research) apples like Liberty, Enterprise, Pristine, and Goldrush. Where's the fun in that though ? I wonder about the consistent part of your statement. Maybe some ain't as consistently disease free as other have seen. Perhaps,  ?? mineral in the soil, or pH, or rootstock that might prefer different soils, changes disease susceptibility??? |
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Post by sd51555 on Sept 7, 2017 6:22:29 GMT -6
You apple guys are possessed. Nice work.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 7, 2017 6:33:38 GMT -6
I imagine these diseases and their variations is at least one big reason why years ago maya told people to just grow basic, consistently disease resistant (proven in many locations through research) apples like Liberty, Enterprise, Pristine, and Goldrush. Where's the fun in that though ? I wonder about the consistent part of your statement. Maybe some ain't as consistently disease free as other have seen. Perhaps, ?? mineral in the soil, or pH, or rootstock that might prefer different soils, changes disease susceptibility??? Liberty, Enterprise, Pristine, and Goldrush are consistently disease resistant against the diseases they've been bred to resist. Obviously, they aren't disease free...they are disease resistant. That resistance is thanks to selective breeding on humans' part. Mother Nature likely did some selective breeding on many of the antique varieties, but their DR may be more localized based on the area they originated from. I have yet to see reports from anywhere in the US that university bred/released DR varieties aren't consistently DR across environments. Liberty is "the" variety known for DR from north to south, east to west. However, the fruits are apparently extremely attractive to codling moth and other insects. A guy could end up with a healthy tree with beautiful foliage...and a bunch of worthless fruit. It's always something edit...I suppose if a guy is trying to grow trees in soil that doesn't support their requirements, that/those trees are destined for lack of success. |
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Post by nhmountains on Sept 7, 2017 6:52:17 GMT -6
I think a majority of habitat guys don't have their soil tested and amended prior to planting. Ben used to stress that. Very few of us do it. I know that I'm guilty of it. That can have an effect on the health of the trees.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 7, 2017 7:00:29 GMT -6
I think a majority of habitat guys don't have their soil tested and amended prior to planting. Ben used to stress that. Very few of us do it. I know that I'm guilty of it. That can have an effect on the health of the trees. Good point. Commercial fruit operations and university researchers don't mess around trying to grow trees in shitty soil. Seems that plenty of habitat guys end up buying properties that don't have great soil (duh, it'd be farmed if it was great). I haven't tested here either, but will soon. I do think a guy can use observation to determine if fruit trees can likely be grown with success (and without significant soil amendment). If there aren't any wild fruit trees growing on a property...there's probably a reason. |
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Post by Sandbur on Sept 7, 2017 12:45:11 GMT -6
I suspect the borderline hardiness is part of why these trees have not really impressed me. They are OK, like others.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 7, 2017 14:40:56 GMT -6
I suspect the borderline hardiness is part of why these trees have not really impressed me. They are OK, like others. Yep, winter hardiness is a whole separate issue. I'm convinced that soil texture and moisture level impacts winter hardiness too. |
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Post by buckvelvet on Sept 8, 2017 9:11:05 GMT -6
I had catastrophic failures for many reasons this year, sore sport for BV.
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?
?? mineral in the soil, or pH, or rootstock that might prefer different soils, changes disease susceptibility???
