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Post by Bob on Jul 31, 2019 7:37:43 GMT -6
I've had a chance to get going on my new book. I haven't gotten far into it, and there is already a wealth of information.
First, our understanding of what this process is, is very limited. Originally stated, allelopathy is more than one plant suppressing the other. Instead, it is the chemical effect of a relationship between plants and organisms. There are positive allelopathic relationships in plants. But first, let's understand the different types of associations between plants.
Allelospoly - Competition of plants with one another. A given plant may suppress another by consuming soil resources first.
Allelomediation - Selective harboring of one species to encourage the exploitation of another.
Allelopathy - The addition of toxins by one or more species in an association.
I suspect the main reason that cool season grains work so well with clovers isn't allelo-"pathy" but rather allelo-"spoly". It's too early to say, but breaking apart these interactions is very instructive when it comes to using plant associations to more easily manage species in a given setting.
More to come...
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Post by Bob on Aug 1, 2019 12:57:49 GMT -6
Allelopathic compounds in seeds
When we think of seed, we like to see seeds that germinate uniformly and quickly, do we not? Of course we do. It's affirmation that are planting method was effective.
There is however, a place in an ecosystem for seeds that do not readily germinate. These are the last lines of defense for a system that suffers crippling disturbance (glyphosate, plowing, acidification, flooding, drought, late freeze, early thaw etc). This is nature's way of saving seed at the north pole in the event the zombie apocalypse pops off. Mother nature just does it right under our feet.
We have all been guilty of trying to conquer the seed bank. If we can just keep coming up with new herbicides or tillage tools to prevent plants from doing exactly what they're supposed to do, we'd finally be rid of these weeds. I'd also argue at that point we'd about be at the edge of collapse because the soil would be dead. So what is the take away from this?
We should not be trying to clean out and sanitize the seed bank. Every move we make has a preplanned response from the soil. To win this engagement, we can't just seek to land the first blow. We have to have a plan to get through the situation without breaking our own hand, getting hit in the face, or worse, getting mobbed by some super-weed, after that first sucker punch.
Know the seed bank has many soldiers lying in wait for you to call them up. We should seek to adapt our management practices to wake those we choose to wake (raspberry, wildflowers, clovers, dogwoods), and to keep asleep those we want to sleep (thistles, horsetail, foxtail, dandelion, etc).
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Post by Catscratch on Aug 1, 2019 13:43:25 GMT -6
Did you follow DGallow any on the other habitat forums before he left? I think you missed out if you didn't. He practices this type of thing for a living, and out of joy.
Keep this thread going as you learn new stuff bob!
ps- managing for natives (forbs and wildflowers) is just crazy talk. No way you can do that and spend lots of money like the BOB companies want you to.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Aug 1, 2019 13:45:22 GMT -6
 Bob you are still second fiddle when it comes to pets! |
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Post by Bob on Aug 1, 2019 17:31:15 GMT -6
Did you follow DGallow any on the other habitat forums before he left? I think you missed out if you didn't. He practices this type of thing for a living, and out of joy. Keep this thread going as you learn new stuff bob! ps- managing for natives (forbs and wildflowers) is just crazy talk. No way you can do that and spend lots of money like the BOB companies want you to. No. I’m not even two years old. |
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Post by Bob on Aug 1, 2019 17:32:25 GMT -6
Bob you are still second fiddle when it comes to pets!  |
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Post by smsmith on Aug 4, 2019 19:14:34 GMT -6
Hey Bob, what do you know about grass and allelopathy? I've got a couple areas where upland grass dominates and I've tried to introduce wild flowers but it hasn't gone well. I'm guessing there's some kind of chemistry shit going on that I'm way too dumb to figure out.
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Post by Bob on Aug 4, 2019 22:10:16 GMT -6
Hey Bob, what do you know about grass and allelopathy? I've got a couple areas where upland grass dominates and I've tried to introduce wild flowers but it hasn't gone well. I'm guessing there's some kind of chemistry shit going on that I'm way too dumb to figure out. Any idea what kind of grass it is? I don't know enough about that yet to give a good answer. After I get through this book, I'd like to learn how to ID grasses. |
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Post by smsmith on Aug 5, 2019 6:43:31 GMT -6
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Post by Bob on Aug 10, 2019 9:55:23 GMT -6
As I continue through this book, it’s apparent to me that there will not be a definitive guide that lays out how plants interact with one another. There are not enough scientists on earth to study the hundreds of millions of interactions between plants, soil types, pH, sun exposure, temperature, etc.
This is further complicated by the complexity within each plant. There are living exudates, and dying exudates. There are bark, straw, root, leaf, and seed exudates. Some of those exudates have staying power, and will shut down our best laid plans no matter how much we throw at it.
Autotoxicity is a good example of this. You cannot fertilize or lime your way to alfalfa after alfalfa. Dead alfalfa throws off an autotoxic exudate that takes a long time to dissipate. Same is seen in peach trees.
The takeaway I’m seeing is this. We need to become observant. Everything around us is an example. Some things grow well together. Note it. Some things are never found together. Note that as well. Note your failures. It may not be as simple as bad seed, bad trees, or bad soil. You may have hit a biological wall.
Now more than ever, the old farts around us hold the keys to this. They may not know why they did things the way they did, but they remember what they did, and it worked.
The observers hold the keys now. We have to learn from those that have come before us, and pick up where they left off.
Meow.
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Post by Bob on Aug 10, 2019 11:00:17 GMT -6
The more I think about this Stu, here's one idea to consider. Amend the soil as needed to get it somewhat in balance and well fed, not so much the leachables, but the hard minerals. Knock out that grass completely and replace it with a one year complex cover crop. I might suggest a blend of oats, rye, wheat, biennial clovers, chicory, and a brassica blend. Just before the snow flies the following year, blow on your flower seed and then mow it all down. The whole idea I have here is to take a year to mitigate away the live and decaying exudates from whatever grass you have growing there. One year later, that flower seed should lay dormant (assuming native and wild flower seed) through spring until it is supposed to germinate. I'd plan on thistle coming, but don't worry about that. They will wear themselves out after a few years. Then broadcast a 1 bushel rate of spring barley into it the spring you expect flowers to emerge. |
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Post by Bob on Aug 10, 2019 18:05:59 GMT -6
Inhibited nitrification (loss of nitrogen) by allelopathy
Farmers have known for a while now, you can grow corn on corn, but you have to add extra nitrogen to deal with all the residue from the last crop. This is intervention needed to stop the natural soil defense against nitrosomonas.
Nitrosomonas - The bacteria that convert soil-stable ammonium to nitrate. Nitrate is the form of nitrogen that becomes leachable and can be lost from the root zone.
A healthy soil will have a balance of carbon to nitrogen in it's plant makeup. The high carbon plant (grasses) residues all likely exude, to some degree, acids that naturally inhibit nitrosomonas. In this book, researchers studied a few that we come across, wheat and corn. In the neverending push and pull of conventional agriculture, science has brought us a manufactured product called nitrapyrin.
The problem of nitrapyrin is that it is a bactericide (kills bacteria). Is it possible that man can apply this chemical as well as or better than nature so as not to throw the soil biology into further chaos and cause more problems that require more intervention from us?
In the corn study, two specific acids were isolated, ferulic and p-coumaric. These are called phenolic acids. It seems the role that these acids play, is to slow down the nitrogen cycle in soils to ensure it is held and used throughout the season and prevent it from being lost to the water table. Not only do these residues hold onto nitrogen, they also fight off the bacteria that would come and claim it.
What can we learn from this?
It seems we can mimick this slow release of nitrogen if we produce a blend of high carbon phenolic inhibitor residues, and mix them in with high nitrogen producing plants like clovers, vetch, beans, peas, etc. Not only is that nitrogen picked up and stored in low carbon plants like radishes and turnips, but it's also stored in rye, wheat, oats, sorghum, corn, chicory, sunflowers, pumpkins etc etc etc. We may be able to produce our own natural schedule for nitrogen release and render obsolete the urea salesman.
Meow.
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Post by Bob on Aug 11, 2019 7:29:02 GMT -6
Allelopathy and it's relationship with lime
We know that lime is a critical first step in getting new ground off the to the right start. We know that lime raises soil pH and that makes things grow better. We know that soil pH in that 6.2-6.7 range is about perfect for nutrient availability and uptake. But do we know why it works? Does it matter?
It does.
Regenerative land managers from all walks of life, be they gardeners, crop farmers, ranchers, or wild game managers know that species diversity is the key to a healthy and functioning ecosystem. We talk of there being no mono-cultures in nature. The problem is, there are monocultures in nature. How is it that the biological principle of diversity has suddenly not applied to certain spots dominated by one seemingly unbeatable plant?
Many plants excrete phytotoxic acids to starve, retard, and poison their would-be competitors. Species relevant to us, that I have found, include quack grass, fescue, goldenrod, fern, leaf litter, pine needles, fleabane, and more. I'd be willing to bet, properly ID'd other species we find in solid stands on our properties are also achieving those solid stands through the excretion of phytotoxins. In these roles, phytotoxins can produce a few different defenses for their host. They can inhibit germination, retard root development, block nutrient uptake, and weaken non-host species.
I've read of countless acids produced by plants, many I cannot even sound out. The common theme in all of these things is that they are acids. What neutralizes an acid? A base, and our base is lime. Fern is a notorious phytotoxin producer and is illustrated as such in the pure and acidic stands we find it in. When we come around with the lime bucket, we knock out (neutralize) the phytotoxins built up in the soil and enable a wider array of plants to access nutrients and grow.
I would be very curious to see what the soil pH is among these solid stands of hard to beat plants. Are they acidic? Could they be weakened and have diversity returned to them with the simple application of lime? Sounds like a $20 experiment worth trying.
Meow
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Post by Sandbur on Aug 11, 2019 7:48:14 GMT -6
I am wondering... acidic soils lock up some nutrients, not quite all.
Is there a pattern of clearer surface waters in areas of acidic soils?
From my experience, yes. I am not talking about tamarack or big stained waters.
So, do Zebes take out enough calcium to lower lake water pH?
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Post by Bob on Aug 11, 2019 9:08:33 GMT -6
I am wondering... acidic soils lock up some nutrients, not quite all. Is there a pattern of clearer surface waters in areas of acidic soils? From my experience, yes. I am not talking about tamarack or big stained waters. So, do Zebes take out enough calcium to lower lake water pH? I don't know about zebra mussels, but raising the pH of the soil has raised hell with water quality in places. It wasn't too long ago, I read a story about the problems of phosphorus runoff into lake Erie. Back when we had dirty air, acid rain, and super acidified soils from from it, one of the benefits of that was locking up phosphorus in the soil. As we cleaned up the air that phosphorus started coming available and started moving around the watershed. |
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