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Post by smsmith on Oct 10, 2017 17:29:52 GMT -6
Chestnut crabs grow well into Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and around Fairbanks, AK. SLN rates them as Extremely Hardy, to -50F. They should be winter hardy anywhere in the continental U.S.
I'm guessing there's something going on besides cold injury. Soil ph low? Soil texture light, sandy? When typically does the first really cold (-20ish) spell usually hit? Does the snow come early and stay late? Are you painting the trunks to prevent sunscald?
It doesn't make sense to me that you're getting Goldrush (a zone 5 tree), and Liberty and Enterprise (zone 4 trees) to survive and not Chestnut Crabs. I'd suspect mislabeling of stock first.
From Wikipedia
"The core Tug Hill region encompasses 150,000 acres (610 km2) of unbroken, generally second-growth, northern hardwood forest,[7] and is drained by a vast network of streams. Important rivers and streams whose headwaters are located within the Tug Hill region include the Mohawk River, Deer River, Salmon River, Mad River, Sandy Creek, and the east and west branches of Fish Creek.[10] Despite the presence of numerous streams, many of the soils in the regions' core are poorly drained. Almost all the soils have some combination of factors which render them unsuitable for agriculture, including shallow depth, stoniness, rough topography, poor or excessive drainage, strong acidity and/or low fertility. Agricultural activity is largely absent from the Tug Hill's core, and is concentrated mainly in the outlying northern and western portions of the region, where soils are better drained and more fertile.[11]"
Is your place in the area considered to be the core?
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Post by nhmountains on Oct 10, 2017 18:22:19 GMT -6
^^^^^^
I'd start with a couple soil tests. If not then a bag of lime spread around each tree. The ph is most likely low which could stress te trees.
Theres got to be a reason they are dying back. If the actual trunk is encased in snow maybe that's a factor.
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Post by chummer16 on Oct 11, 2017 16:45:04 GMT -6
Chestnut crabs grow well into Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and around Fairbanks, AK. SLN rates them as Extremely Hardy, to -50F. They should be winter hardy anywhere in the continental U.S. I'm guessing there's something going on besides cold injury. Soil ph low? Soil texture light, sandy? When typically does the first really cold (-20ish) spell usually hit? Does the snow come early and stay late? Are you painting the trunks to prevent sunscald? It doesn't make sense to me that you're getting Goldrush (a zone 5 tree), and Liberty and Enterprise (zone 4 trees) to survive and not Chestnut Crabs. I'd suspect mislabeling of stock first. From Wikipedia "The core Tug Hill region encompasses 150,000 acres (610 km2) of unbroken, generally second-growth, northern hardwood forest,[7] and is drained by a vast network of streams. Important rivers and streams whose headwaters are located within the Tug Hill region include the Mohawk River, Deer River, Salmon River, Mad River, Sandy Creek, and the east and west branches of Fish Creek.[10] Despite the presence of numerous streams, many of the soils in the regions' core are poorly drained. Almost all the soils have some combination of factors which render them unsuitable for agriculture, including shallow depth, stoniness, rough topography, poor or excessive drainage, strong acidity and/or low fertility. Agricultural activity is largely absent from the Tug Hill's core, and is concentrated mainly in the outlying northern and western portions of the region, where soils are better drained and more fertile.[11]" Is your place in the area considered to be the core? well that is depressing reminder of what I am dealing with. I am in the core of the Tug. Snow comes early and stays late (5 months). First -20 could be December. The first batch that died were painted second batch were not. I have a lot of rocks but soil is pretty good. PH is around 5 where I have tested but all the trees are limed at planting, and they do put on a ton of growth that first year. I thought they could be missed labeled but they are from two different years. The one that is thriving is planted in a wooded plot and gets less sun than the rest. I just don't think there is an answer. Every Kerr, Dolgo, wolf river, frostbite, and SNL tree are thriving. I even got a handful of apples this year on three year old trees. Come to think of it the Liberty and enterprise that are doing good are also in that wooded plot along with 2 WR and 2 Frostbite. Maybe that is offering them some protection in the winter
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Post by nhmountains on Oct 11, 2017 17:07:34 GMT -6
One thing I've done on my younger trees that exposed more is to take some evergreen branches and weave them into the fencing on the south and west sides. I think it helps prevent the sun scald.
I was excited for you after the logging. I thought those apples would love the sun light. It sounds like you've done everything you can. Maybe stick with SLN and ask Connor what to do?
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Post by chummer16 on Oct 11, 2017 17:39:04 GMT -6
One thing I've done on my younger trees that exposed more is to take some evergreen branches and weave them into the fencing on the south and west sides. I think it helps prevent the sun scald. I was excited for you after the logging. I thought those apples would love the sun light. It sounds like you've done everything you can. Maybe stick with SLN and ask Connor what to do? The rootstocks love the sunlight! I am done with Cummins not that it is their fault but SLN trees are putting them to shame. I had some mild success grafting this year so I will be going heavy on Kerr and one native tree I have that is very similar looking to Kerr going forward. I have about five dead trees left at camp that I might swap with SLN trees. Digging is so hard and those holes were dug with a backhoe. They have fabric and stone around them so I will probably peel back the fabric and replace since it will be easy digging. I am taking a co worker and his 15yo kid up for muzzleloader this weekend. They have only hunted farms so it should be interesting for them even if they don't see much. I will grab some pictures of the trees since I will be at both properties.
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Post by smsmith on Oct 11, 2017 17:48:25 GMT -6
One thing I've done on my younger trees that exposed more is to take some evergreen branches and weave them into the fencing on the south and west sides. I think it helps prevent the sun scald. I was excited for you after the logging. I thought those apples would love the sun light. It sounds like you've done everything you can. Maybe stick with SLN and ask Connor what to do? Good advice for northern growers IMHO. I wasn't impressed with my trees or rootstocks from Cummins.
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Post by nhmountains on Oct 11, 2017 18:00:41 GMT -6
One thing I've done on my younger trees that exposed more is to take some evergreen branches and weave them into the fencing on the south and west sides. I think it helps prevent the sun scald. I was excited for you after the logging. I thought those apples would love the sun light. It sounds like you've done everything you can. Maybe stick with SLN and ask Connor what to do? The rootstocks love the sunlight! I am done with Cummins not that it is their fault but SLN trees are putting them to shame. I had some mild success grafting this year so I will be going heavy on Kerr and one native tree I have that is very similar looking to Kerr going forward. I have about five dead trees left at camp that I might swap with SLN trees. Digging is so hard and those holes were dug with a backhoe. They have fabric and stone around them so I will probably peel back the fabric and replace since it will be easy digging. I am taking a co worker and his 15yo kid up for muzzleloader this weekend. They have only hunted farms so it should be interesting for them even if they don't see much. I will grab some pictures of the trees since I will be at both properties. Remind that coworker that you'll need some habitt help on a weekend or two next spring. I had a coworker come to my camp to hunt for 5 years. He came to help twice the first year. Never came back for work after that. Shut him down two years ago.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Oct 12, 2017 13:47:20 GMT -6
If anyone knows of a good cold hardy pear tree, I'd like to try 2-3
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Post by nhmountains on Oct 12, 2017 14:06:36 GMT -6
If anyone knows of a good cold hardy pear tree, I'd like to try 2-3 I've been told by several hunters that deer will go to pear trees more favorably than apples. SLN has several cold hardy pe ars.
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Post by smsmith on Oct 12, 2017 14:12:00 GMT -6
If anyone knows of a good cold hardy pear tree, I'd like to try 2-3 I've got Ure, Early Gold, Golden Spice, Walden Large, Hill, Stacey, Vavilov, Sauvignac, Southworth, and Waterville growing here. Next spring I hope to be grafting Beireschmidt and Tyson (as well as another Southworth or two and some Siberian pear for pollination purposes) I'll let you know which are "best" in a few years I'd suggest Ure, Early Gold, and/or Golden Spice for winter hardiness and fireblight resistance. About as close to a "no brainer" as it gets when it comes to pears in northern areas.
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Post by smsmith on Oct 12, 2017 14:16:25 GMT -6
If anyone knows of a good cold hardy pear tree, I'd like to try 2-3 I've been told by several hunters that deer will go to pear trees more favorably than apples. SLN has several cold hardy pe ars. I've heard that too. I had a large pear tree on my old place (Dad planted it when I was in my early teens). That thing dropped bushels of fruit most every year. I'd take the drops down by the pond (where we hauled all of the fruit drops, got them away from the house and orchard) and feed them to the critters. Deer there didn't much care for the pears. McIntosh apples were by far the most highly preferred (also had Jonathan, Anoka, Cortland, and Whitney crabs in the pile).
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Post by Bwoods11 on Oct 12, 2017 14:51:10 GMT -6
If anyone knows of a good cold hardy pear tree, I'd like to try 2-3 I've got Ure, Early Gold, Golden Spice, Walden Large, Hill, Stacey, Vavilov, Sauvignac, Southworth, and Waterville growing here. Next spring I hope to be grafting Beireschmidt and Tyson (as well as another Southworth or two and some Siberian pear for pollination purposes) I'll let you know which are "best" in a few years I'd suggest Ure, Early Gold, and/or Golden Spice for winter hardiness and fireblight resistance. About as close to a "no brainer" as it gets when it comes to pears in northern areas. I would love to know. A good cherry would be nice to know as well.
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Post by biglakebass on Oct 12, 2017 15:00:35 GMT -6
I ordered 2 pears from turkey creek. He said they are good for my area.
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Post by smsmith on Oct 12, 2017 15:18:51 GMT -6
I ordered 2 pears from turkey creek. He said they are good for my area. What varieties did he sell you?
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Post by smsmith on Oct 12, 2017 15:20:59 GMT -6
I've got Ure, Early Gold, Golden Spice, Walden Large, Hill, Stacey, Vavilov, Sauvignac, Southworth, and Waterville growing here. Next spring I hope to be grafting Beireschmidt and Tyson (as well as another Southworth or two and some Siberian pear for pollination purposes) I'll let you know which are "best" in a few years I'd suggest Ure, Early Gold, and/or Golden Spice for winter hardiness and fireblight resistance. About as close to a "no brainer" as it gets when it comes to pears in northern areas. I would love to know. A good cherry would be nice to know as well.Cherries are tough. Sweet cherries this far north are even tougher (more like impossible, except for bush cherries). If you want pie/tart cherries, there are options out there....cherries tend to be short lived compared to apples and pears though. Article on cherries in central MN www.mda.state.mn.us/protecting/sustainable/greenbook/~/media/Files/protecting/sustainable/greenbook2011/gb2011altrichter.ashx
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