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Post by nhmountains on Dec 10, 2018 20:12:59 GMT -6
NH, the bucks group up most of the year. They feed together in the summer, break apart in October, and then group back after the rut to hit winter food sources. I've always felt that it helps to have the little blocks of bedding separated for social reasons, but I also know that extra cover is always good. I really don't know if connecting the blocks will add more bedding but it might add travel security.... which might bring in older bucks to take over the bedding. Efence is possible but not likely. When that creek floods it destroys regular fence... I would completely loose my setup a couple times a year. Bedding on these open pastures can be really random. I kind of picture it being analogous to big woods deer in that they can be anywhere. Stop on top of a hill with binoculars and a big buck is just as likely to stand up in knee high grass in the middle of a 300 acre block of grass as they are to step out of the creekbottom. Cover is a relative thing and it seems dependent on the deers mood where it beds on any given day. Maybe I should approach this as improving travel corridors instead of bedding.?.That’s what I’m thinking. They prefer edge so any corridors you can create they’ll most likely follow those. Even the snow fence idea that others have used would most likely work if you put up sections here and there. Or or long term if you planted caged evergreens in a row they would most likely follow them once they’re larger in 5-7 years. Would they live in Kansas heat though?
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 10, 2018 21:17:42 GMT -6
NH, the bucks group up most of the year. They feed together in the summer, break apart in October, and then group back after the rut to hit winter food sources. I've always felt that it helps to have the little blocks of bedding separated for social reasons, but I also know that extra cover is always good. I really don't know if connecting the blocks will add more bedding but it might add travel security.... which might bring in older bucks to take over the bedding. Efence is possible but not likely. When that creek floods it destroys regular fence... I would completely loose my setup a couple times a year. Bedding on these open pastures can be really random. I kind of picture it being analogous to big woods deer in that they can be anywhere. Stop on top of a hill with binoculars and a big buck is just as likely to stand up in knee high grass in the middle of a 300 acre block of grass as they are to step out of the creekbottom. Cover is a relative thing and it seems dependent on the deers mood where it beds on any given day. Maybe I should approach this as improving travel corridors instead of bedding.?.That’s what I’m thinking. They prefer edge so any corridors you can create they’ll most likely follow those. Even the snow fence idea that others have used would most likely work if you put up sections here and there. Or or long term if you planted caged evergreens in a row they would most likely follow them once they’re larger in 5-7 years. Would they live in Kansas heat though? Red cedars would live!
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 10, 2018 21:23:56 GMT -6
Cedar lives in KS and is a good option for cattle pasture because it can handle that stress. Kansas is the only state in the lower 48 that doesn't have a native pine so it's really the only long term option. Cedar are hated by a lot of ranchers but they are easy to control by clipping or with fire. Hedge is another option.
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Post by honker on Dec 11, 2018 8:13:59 GMT -6
How many acres do you have? I had the pleasure to hunt a guy from the old forums place this year and is amazing how far his property has come in just 3-4 years. He is holding many older bucks where before there were typically 1-2 before. The quick answer is he made enough of his place so thick that you couldn’t hunt it if you wanted to. That has pulled the bucks in and they are hunted when they come out looking for does. He had multiple big bucks out daily during the rut which was the first time he saw this in 30 years. He did this through heavy logging that ended about three years ago. He knows of a couple nice ones the neighbors got crossing his line but he is heavily hunted on all sides and as of the end of the season a good number of bucks were still up right. How many acres was his place?
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Post by chummer16 on Dec 11, 2018 15:24:25 GMT -6
How many acres do you have? I had the pleasure to hunt a guy from the old forums place this year and is amazing how far his property has come in just 3-4 years. He is holding many older bucks where before there were typically 1-2 before. The quick answer is he made enough of his place so thick that you couldn’t hunt it if you wanted to. That has pulled the bucks in and they are hunted when they come out looking for does. He had multiple big bucks out daily during the rut which was the first time he saw this in 30 years. He did this through heavy logging that ended about three years ago. He knows of a couple nice ones the neighbors got crossing his line but he is heavily hunted on all sides and as of the end of the season a good number of bucks were still up right. How many acres was his place? 600. He aggressively cut 200 acres over three years.
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Post by batman on Dec 11, 2018 15:34:47 GMT -6
How many acres was his place? 600. He aggressively cut 200 acres over three years. Read logging. Not hinge cutting.
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 11, 2018 15:49:48 GMT -6
600. He aggressively cut 200 acres over three years. Read logging. Not hinge cutting. I've seen you say this before. Why no hinging? In your opinion is it better to completely cut them down and let them lay? Or better to completely remove the trunk of the from the area (like logging)?
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Post by chummer16 on Dec 11, 2018 17:46:36 GMT -6
600. He aggressively cut 200 acres over three years. Read logging. Not hinge cutting. Real logging. The majority that was left was hickory which deer eat here and apple trees.
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Post by batman on Dec 11, 2018 18:25:43 GMT -6
Read logging. Not hinge cutting. I've seen you say this before. Why no hinging? In your opinion is it better to completely cut them down and let them lay? Or better to completely remove the trunk of the from the area (like logging)? From what I have seen the required man hours of hinging to have an effect are not reasonable. Not saying it cant be done but Bring in the heavy equipment and 3 years later you have changed the world. The effect is profound.
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 12, 2018 6:16:10 GMT -6
I've seen you say this before. Why no hinging? In your opinion is it better to completely cut them down and let them lay? Or better to completely remove the trunk of the from the area (like logging)? From what I have seen the required man hours of hinging to have an effect are not reasonable. Not saying it cant be done but Bring in the heavy equipment and 3 years later you have changed the world. The effect is profound. Got it. I had gone a different direction and thought you had a habitat reason to not hinge. I could probably hinge every tree on my place in 1 winter. Don't have the forests that you guys do. I just realized something. Two of the three neighbors have had crop-dusters in the last couple of yrs spraying broad-leafs. Won't be long before I'm the only guy with woody brows and thickets. It might make my place the spot to be... but it could cut down on overall deer habitat in the area.
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Post by jbird on Dec 12, 2018 11:34:46 GMT -6
My experience is that you don't have to have "trees" to have deer cover. The best deer cover I have ever seen was my neighbors place about 5-7 years after he converted a corn field into row planted oaks. They planted the oaks and walked away. The first few years sucked, but once the weeds and the natural seed bank got going and the oaks started growing it was great. The goldenrod and the like and the cedars that came up naturally made a great place for the deer to hide. Nothing was over 15 feet tall but it was thick and just a wall of cover. Things are starting to decline now as the oaks are starting to canopy so the ground level cover is poor because the grasses and weeds won't grow in the shade...but it certainly showed me how a particular growth phase of an area can really be excellent deer cover. Sometimes just killing off some fescue is all you need to do and let mother nature do her thing.
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 12, 2018 12:24:40 GMT -6
My experience is that you don't have to have "trees" to have deer cover. The best deer cover I have ever seen was my neighbors place about 5-7 years after he converted a corn field into row planted oaks. They planted the oaks and walked away. The first few years sucked, but once the weeds and the natural seed bank got going and the oaks started growing it was great. The goldenrod and the like and the cedars that came up naturally made a great place for the deer to hide. Nothing was over 15 feet tall but it was thick and just a wall of cover. Things are starting to decline now as the oaks are starting to canopy so the ground level cover is poor because the grasses and weeds won't grow in the shade...but it certainly showed me how a particular growth phase of an area can really be excellent deer cover. Sometimes just killing off some fescue is all you need to do and let mother nature do her thing. I agree on the height of the cover.
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Post by DoubleLiver on Dec 13, 2018 6:38:55 GMT -6
I will throwvin that at my place in ks (which is about 50/50 woods to field), that if we hinge an area in the neighborhood of 30 yards by 30 yards, in two years we will see more activity in and generating from that area. Also anything we plant is eaten by the deer and if they survive they take years to get to any size. The exception is red cedar. They do not get eaten but do take years to get four feet tall
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 13, 2018 7:05:26 GMT -6
Height of cover is very obvious here. With a general lack of trees and almost every inch of land grazed it doesn't take much to hold a deer. That's why I say bedding is kind of random. A small plum thicket on the hillside might be shoulder high... but it's in the middle of 300 acres of shin high grass. CRP is probably the best bedding around, especially west of us where there really is no trees.
DoubleLiver - I've done exactly that on our oak bluff. 30 by 30 clearing that grew up thick and is heavily used. It started as a small food plot that I gave up on. It's 100 times more attractive as regrowth than it was as a plot! I go back in every couple of years and cut it all back down to restart the thing. Cedar's are goofy. A pasture will sit for years with barely any sign of them poking up through the grass, then all of a sudden the pasture is engulfed with them. Ranchers hate them; can't see cattle for an easy count and grass doesn't grow under them.
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 13, 2018 7:11:48 GMT -6
Cat. What if you would buy a roll of cement wire and make a circle fence with it.
Plant wild plums in it and leave it grow for five to ten years.
Plant a rim of red cedars around the outside of it. Maybe leave a gap between the fence and cedars, maybe not.
The fence could act as a funnel until you remove it. I have crab/ plum fenced areas like that and deer walk around them.
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