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Post by benmnwi on Oct 11, 2021 11:02:53 GMT -6
I'm in favor of banning deer farms - the value of wild deer is too great to allow the risk of disease from a few deer farms. Some deer farmers follow the rules, but many don't and it isn't a coincidence that positive wild deer typically are found close to game farms. I know a guy who has a world class property in SE MN and the deer herd in his area was virtually wiped out by the combo of DNR sharpshooters over corn and unlimited buck tags for hunters. The DNR is really good at convincing you need to kill all the deer to save the deer and they were able to get access to cull deer in private owned areas that had some of the best hunting in the state. Pretty crappy deal.
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Post by smsmith on Oct 11, 2021 11:35:03 GMT -6
I'm in favor of banning deer farms - the value of wild deer is too great to allow the risk of disease from a few deer farms. Some deer farmers follow the rules, but many don't and it isn't a coincidence that positive wild deer typically are found close to game farms. I know a guy who has a world class property in SE MN and the deer herd in his area was virtually wiped out by the combo of DNR sharpshooters over corn and unlimited buck tags for hunters. The DNR is really good at convincing you need to kill all the deer to save the deer and they were able to get access to cull deer in private owned areas that had some of the best hunting in the state. Pretty crappy deal. I understand that sentiment and at one time shared it. Now, I look at these businesses folks have built to support their families, and I think they should be able to run their legally operated businesses without undue government interference. There's an outfit maybe 10 miles northeast of me that is a high class operation. I have no idea how many millions that operation is worth, but it has to be a bunch. A few years ago there was a SCI record whitetail shot there. It is an impressive place to drive past. My neighbor's elk farm is nothing like that. It's a small family operation with very rustic "accommodations". They do own around 800 high fenced acres, so there is plenty of money tied up in real estate. The owners live in what I'd have to call a shithole. Late 70s single wide trailers. They are surviving, but they sure aren't getting rich. These people built and invested in legal businesses. I'm no longer in favor of the government taking away these folks' ability to live their dream. If these or any other farms break the rules/laws, then they should indeed be punished. If they are doing what the law requires, they should be left alone IMO
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CWD
Oct 11, 2021 11:42:55 GMT -6
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Post by badgerfowl on Oct 11, 2021 11:42:55 GMT -6
Yup cancelling someone’s livelihood because you don’t like it is straight from the lib playbook. Play by the rules and live and let live.
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CWD
Oct 11, 2021 12:13:09 GMT -6
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Post by benmnwi on Oct 11, 2021 12:13:09 GMT -6
It is not uncommon to see deer with ear tags down here running around in the wild, so there are a lot of deer farmers that can't keep their deer inside their fences even though their farms appear to be top notch. I've personally seen one ear tagged deer in the wild and I have been invited on a summer rifle hunt when a friend had an ear tag buck on camera and the DNR said kill it. These areas are now in the CWD zone. Not surprisingly, the local deer farmers all say they do an awesome job of containing deer and it must have escaped from another farm. They also say the local CWD issues didn't come from them either. From a disease transmission standpoint, it's logical to assume that diseases are more likely to be created and spread when deer farmers have deer densities of several thousand deer per square mile versus the 40 deer per square mile outside the fence.
I'm fine with people doing whatever is legal as long as it doesn't negatively impact their neighbors, but escaped deer can lead to huge negative impacts for that neighborhood. I'm dealing with those negative consequences on my SE MN place now since we are in the CWD zone. I really have nothing to gain by banning deer farms since CWD is already here, but the guys that own land or hunt in CWD free areas have a lot to lose if a deer farm comes to their area and infects the wild herd. There's my $0.02
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CWD
Oct 11, 2021 14:02:24 GMT -6
via mobile
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Post by Sandbur on Oct 11, 2021 14:02:24 GMT -6
I feel banning deer farms might slow the spread, but feel it is inevitable to be nearly everywhere with time.
If deer farms are to be banned, they need to be bought out at a fair price. Three questions come to mind when I think of a fair price. 1.is it enough to compensate the owner for loss of his livelihood? 2 can we afford that price? Who pays? 3.Is the price justifiable if CWD will be there within 10-15 years anyway?
4 questions, I know. I can’t count!
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CWD
Oct 11, 2021 14:04:28 GMT -6
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Post by smsmith on Oct 11, 2021 14:04:28 GMT -6
I feel banning deer farms might slow the spread, but feel it is inevitable to be nearly everywhere with time. If deer farms are to be banned, they need to be bought out at a fair price. Three questions come to mind when I think of a fair price. 1.is it enough to compensate the owner for loss of his livelihood? 2 can we afford that price? Who pays? 3.Is the price justifiable if CWD will be there within 10-15 years anyway? 4 questions, I know. I can’t count! I'd add another question, who determines what is "fair" compensation when buying out the owners?
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Post by caveman on Oct 12, 2021 13:02:05 GMT -6
I was once fully on the bandwagon to ban all deer farms. Now I am on the fence. My biggest concerns on the subject is what will the next animal be that we are told we cannot farm? Eventually, will we only be able to farm the plants and animals that the King allows us to?
Then, is CWD really just being overblown by certain individuals or groups the same way that the Covid is? Maybe what is really happening is the people that guide on non-fenced properties are trying to get rid of the fenced property hunts.
Or maybe CWD will mutate with Covid and kill is all by having us sneeze our brains out. And farming deer then should be banned. I dunno.
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Post by smsmith on Oct 12, 2021 13:30:35 GMT -6
I was once fully on the bandwagon to ban all deer farms. Now I am on the fence. My biggest concerns on the subject is what will the next animal be that we are told we cannot farm? Eventually, will we only be able to farm the plants and animals that the King allows us to? Then, is CWD really just being overblown by certain individuals or groups the same way that the Covid is? Maybe what is really happening is the people that guide on non-fenced properties are trying to get rid of the fenced property hunts. Or maybe CWD will mutate with Covid and kill is all by having us sneeze our brains out. And farming deer then should be banned. I dunno. Pretty much why I am against the government shutting down an entire category of legal business. What's next? Bars? A case can easily be made that bars serve a product/provide a service than can endanger others. I know most of the Baptists around here (no offense to any Baptists reading this) would love to shut down every bar and liquor store. They just put up a billboard across from a local bar saying "Alcoholism hurts families". While this is certainly true, the message is quite clear to those bar owners. The rendering plant north of town stinks like shit every day of the year. When the wind and atmospheric conditions are right, we can smell it here...and we're more than 10 miles away. Should they be shut down because they are negatively impacting homeowners in the area? It doesn't take a lot of imagination to come up with "reasons" for having the government shut down businesses. I don't want to see that happen. I'm pretty sure CWD is, and has been a "tool" used to create fear so state DNRs can keep deer numbers at levels they can manage.
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Post by caveman on Oct 12, 2021 14:01:58 GMT -6
I was once fully on the bandwagon to ban all deer farms. Now I am on the fence. My biggest concerns on the subject is what will the next animal be that we are told we cannot farm? Eventually, will we only be able to farm the plants and animals that the King allows us to? Then, is CWD really just being overblown by certain individuals or groups the same way that the Covid is? Maybe what is really happening is the people that guide on non-fenced properties are trying to get rid of the fenced property hunts. Or maybe CWD will mutate with Covid and kill is all by having us sneeze our brains out. And farming deer then should be banned. I dunno. Pretty much why I am against the government shutting down an entire category of legal business.What's next? Bars? A case can easily be made that bars serve a product/provide a service than can endanger others. I know most of the Baptists around here (no offense to any Baptists reading this) would love to shut down every bar and liquor store. They just put up a billboard across from a local bar saying "Alcoholism hurts families". While this is certainly true, the message is quite clear to those bar owners. The rendering plant north of town stinks like shit every day of the year. When the wind and atmospheric conditions are right, we can smell it here...and we're more than 10 miles away. Should they be shut down because they are negatively impacting homeowners in the area? It doesn't take a lot of imagination to come up with "reasons" for having the government shut down businesses. I don't want to see that happen. I'm pretty sure CWD is, and has been a "tool" used to create fear so state DNRs can keep deer numbers at levels they can manage. Yet, its a quandary in that the very establishment of hunting regulations and laws forbidding selling of wild game shut down many businesses (in the early 1900's???) to protect wild game and hunting. The same that many are saying needs to be done now.
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Post by Catscratch on Oct 12, 2021 16:34:49 GMT -6
The more I see government trying to force themselves upon us for our own good, the more likely I am to view this stuff with skepticism. I understand the quandary that caveman presents and agree that there should be sound management laws that promote huntable populations and discourage poaching (such as making it illegal to sell wild game meat). With that said I completely get where you guys are coming from with the "what animal is next" and "who decides what businesses should be outlawed" frame of mind. I'm not convinced that CWD is as much of a game changer as the protocols to control it are. Combine that with my growing distrust of anything government and I'm all of sudden a huge fan of game farms (sort of... it's more of spite thing). I don't think I expressed my thoughts real clearly but you'all probably smell what I'm stepping in.
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Post by sd51555 on Oct 12, 2021 17:42:58 GMT -6
The more I see government trying to force themselves upon us for our own good, the more likely I am to view this stuff with skepticism. I understand the quandary that caveman presents and agree that there should be sound management laws that promote huntable populations and discourage poaching (such as making it illegal to sell wild game meat). With that said I completely get where you guys are coming from with the "what animal is next" and "who decides what businesses should be outlawed" frame of mind. I'm not convinced that CWD is as much of a game changer as the protocols to control it are. Combine that with my growing distrust of anything government and I'm all of sudden a huge fan of game farms (sort of... it's more of spite thing). I don't think I expressed my thoughts real clearly but you'all probably smell what I'm stepping in. Most farming, nearly all farming, is illegal. Growing and selling food and medicine is highly illegal, like rifles in your face illegal. Sure we can grow shit for ourselves, but there is a steep and intentionally bureaucratic wall preventing small producers from ever existing again. And that will forever be the boot on the throat of rural america. Tiny family operations used to reap the rewards of all the value-adding. They'd pasteurize milk, make butter, make cheese, separate cream, bake, can, grow weed, hemp, juice, jelly, eggs, butcher, mill lumbers, grind flours, clean seed, make clothes, tobacco, etc. All the artisanal small farm trades have been banned, and now we've got to rely on a steady stream of illegals and refugees in distant and gross mega operations to keep us fed. But we're still free to grow corn and beans.
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CWD
Nov 4, 2021 14:34:15 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Sandbur on Nov 4, 2021 14:34:15 GMT -6
Suspected case found north of Moorhead near Climax. Evidently the state is doing a retest.
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CWD
Nov 4, 2021 14:40:21 GMT -6
Post by Bob on Nov 4, 2021 14:40:21 GMT -6
Suspected case found north of Moorhead near Climax. Evidently the state is doing a retest. Where is Jay Leno when you need him?
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CWD
Nov 4, 2021 16:30:47 GMT -6
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Post by caveman on Nov 4, 2021 16:30:47 GMT -6
Suspected case found north of Moorhead near Climax. Evidently the state is doing a retest. Links:
Let's go Brandon!
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CWD
Nov 29, 2021 16:15:39 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Sandbur on Nov 29, 2021 16:15:39 GMT -6
Minnesota will now have late season CWD hunts by the North Dakota border. Elk exist within 50 miles of there, per one news source.
I have said it before and will repeat it again. They are nuts to consider moving elk from NW Mn to the Duluth area. They need to see where this CWD will lead first.
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