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Post by MN Slick on Jan 24, 2019 11:15:24 GMT -6
Do you have any WSG's? Could you surround some of your thickets with them to add to your overall cover and still have enough area for the cattle? Regarding high scoring bucks the more I study trail cam pics and the more I learn about mature bucks the more apparent it becomes that most bucks just don't have the potential to get "big". I just listened to a podcast with a professor from Mississippi State who mentioned that 60-70% of bucks are average. In his area this was 8 points and about 128”. I'm not sure what average is in my area or yours but that leaves a damn small percentage with potential to get outsized. It most areas it becomes luck if the right buck gets enough age on him to show his goods but you are in Kansas so that is a good start. Have you had quite a few bucks over the years over 160 on your ground? Plenty. I shoot one every couple of years but pass on them quite often in an attempt to shoot a bigger one. I'm going to say AVERAGE mature = 140-155. In the future I plan to have more area for thickets and cover, it's going to be slow though and not an immediate thing. Nice! More cover will certainly be the key to getting them older then. I'm in the same boat. I'd love to covert my tillable to WSG and spray the grass on the field we let our farmer hay but need the income and the farmer relationship more.
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Post by jbird on Jan 24, 2019 11:48:31 GMT -6
Cat, if your getting the deer you are in that sea of grass....I think your doing pretty damn good! Your "average" is on par with what I am seeing on my place. I have a sea of corn and soybeans with cover being by far the limiting habitat feature. I, like you, can't afford to remove ground that is more financially productive to improve my habitat either. All I can do is work with what I have and try to make the limited habitat I can play with as good as I can. To be honest...if my neighbors ground wasn't planted to trees 20 years ago...I would never see near the deer I do. I also think these B&C class deer are the exception and NOT the rule. I think it takes a lot of stars to align for you to grow AND harvest one...at least in my opinion. I don't think every deer...even most deer, have B&C potential. Also keep in mind that the antler size growth rate slows as the deer matures as well. A deer's antler score will increase quickly in the first few years, but then tappers off once they really start reaching maturity. If you are getting those blocky, built like a tank, type deer and they are supporting 160"...then that may simply be where you region nutritional plane and regional genetics and the like produce. That certainly isn't a bad thing. Even in KS...not every buck is destined to be a B&C class deer.
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Ideas?
Jan 24, 2019 14:30:24 GMT -6
Post by Catscratch on Jan 24, 2019 14:30:24 GMT -6
Do it all the time. Bales and cubes are placed strategically to place fertilizer/mineral where I want it, or where the pasture needs it. I often add seed to a spot before feeding so that seed gets stomped in and fertilized while they eat. This is part of my pasture improvement method. It's basically making a foodplot with no equipment or input costs other than seed. This is really my plan of attack for this whole thread... improve pasture fertility, mineral mining (with tap rooted forbs), nitrogen fixation (with legumes), and palatability with proper pH. We feed cattle mineral, a percentage of this does not stay in the cow and gets pooped out so spreading mineral is minimized. I was joking about the feeder. I think you’re on the right track. Age and security will be what gets them to Booner status. Make an island in the middle of those bottoms where they’ll stay or go to for security. Do the deer there get stressed much in the winter like the northern bucks? Nope. I don't see how winter here could be that hard on a deer. We get no snow to speak of, it only gets cold for a few days at a time, and there is plenty of browse around. Cover and security seem to be the reoccurring theme in all these threads....
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Ideas?
Jan 24, 2019 14:34:02 GMT -6
Post by Catscratch on Jan 24, 2019 14:34:02 GMT -6
Plenty. I shoot one every couple of years but pass on them quite often in an attempt to shoot a bigger one. I'm going to say AVERAGE mature = 140-155. In the future I plan to have more area for thickets and cover, it's going to be slow though and not an immediate thing. Nice! More cover will certainly be the key to getting them older then. I'm in the same boat. I'd love to covert my tillable to WSG and spray the grass on the field we let our farmer hay but need the income and the farmer relationship more.I've decided that being independently wealthy would be cool... but to be honest I kind of like the challenges of overcoming limitations. Life would be boring if you could just throw money at it and solve everything. I suppose you would just find new problems.
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Ideas?
Jan 24, 2019 14:35:15 GMT -6
Post by Catscratch on Jan 24, 2019 14:35:15 GMT -6
How many acres you looking to bite off Cat? All of them, or a few target areas for deer? I think a good first step would be 2 tons of calcitic pell lime. With 7.8% organic matter, you may not need to do anything with sulfur. A good shot of lime may be the biggest and easiest impact to start with. It's easy to understand why you get such good production when it rains based on that OM. I like the idea of adding legumes and deep rooting perennial broadleafs. pH 6.1 is on the edge of usable. You are probably right that lime would plug the lowest hole nutritionally.
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Post by Sandbur on Jan 24, 2019 16:03:53 GMT -6
How many acres you looking to bite off Cat? All of them, or a few target areas for deer? I think a good first step would be 2 tons of calcitic pell lime. With 7.8% organic matter, you may not need to do anything with sulfur. A good shot of lime may be the biggest and easiest impact to start with. It's easy to understand why you get such good production when it rains based on that OM. I like the idea of adding legumes and deep rooting perennial broadleafs. pH 6.1 is on the edge of usable. You are probably right that lime would plug the lowest hole nutritionally. Is water/moisture the lowest hole in the bucket?
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Post by jbird on Jan 24, 2019 16:31:59 GMT -6
Nice! More cover will certainly be the key to getting them older then. I'm in the same boat. I'd love to covert my tillable to WSG and spray the grass on the field we let our farmer hay but need the income and the farmer relationship more.I've decided that being independently wealthy would be cool... but to be honest I kind of like the challenges of overcoming limitations. Life would be boring if you could just throw money at it and solve everything. I suppose you would just find new problems. Man, what a problem to have! I agree it may just manifest into other problems, but man I'd like to try for a while!
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