ace
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Post by ace on Feb 27, 2017 20:26:03 GMT -6
Leap flogging off of the retirement thread....
SS is a sketchy subject and most in the thread alone have no hope it will be there when we retire. I'm pretty sure many people generations before us (my generation at least) had the same sentiment. So what gives? Is the shit really running out? Is it being misused? Does anyone really know?
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Post by Freeborn on Feb 27, 2017 20:41:35 GMT -6
The trust fund does not exist as our politicians have used the money for other reasons. SS is all part of the entitlement liability that needs to be fixed. Allot depends on whether they can get the economy going and improve the financials of both the government and citizens. If economically we don't preform very well then drastic efforts will have to be taken to keep entitlement programs solvent. I think the only thing stopping the country from strong economic growth are those politicians who gain from having dependent citizens. If we don't fix the financials then they might means-test SS based on income so most likely a program for the poor. Medicare taxes will either have to go up or service will have to go down.
I have not given up on the country and think allot of people realize that what we just had the past 8 years is in nobodies best interest. Hopefully the country begins to grow and the financial health of the country improves. I wish i had a crystal ball but I would say if you have a high income (150k year in todays dollars) in retirement you will see your SS reduced.
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ace
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Posts: 153
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Post by ace on Feb 27, 2017 20:44:29 GMT -6
Ok, so let's say....SS is no more. Do we as tax payers get that 12.4% to invest as we wish?
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Post by Satchmo on Feb 27, 2017 20:51:51 GMT -6
Freeborn, I think your walking a slippery slope calling SS an entitlement. A lot of folks gave the gov't a lot of money toward that system and think they should get it back.
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Post by Freeborn on Feb 27, 2017 20:57:29 GMT -6
Hard to say but it probably won't be called FICA, however we still need to pay for the poor as we can't allow them to live on the street. SS won't change its name but it turns into a program for the poor and a tax for everybody else. I'm just guessing but they will have to make the numbers work somehow and if you have significant retirement income I would guess they will reduce your SS income. You may get a check but it will probably be allot less than what it should be.
Lets hope we get an economic bull run and some common sense spending.
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Post by Freeborn on Feb 27, 2017 21:12:05 GMT -6
Freeborn, I think your walking a slippery slope calling SS an entitlement. A lot of folks gave the gov't a lot of money toward that system and think they should get it back. Its just a word and SS always gets rolled into entitlements because its part of the total liability the country has. Most people will get SS of some type but if you have good retirement income which i think allot of people on here will have you will most likely get your SS phased out or reduced based on income. Hard to say where the income level is but entitlements including SS can't be taken away from the poor as they have nothing else so it will fall on middle and higher income people. FORBES has published the wealth of all Billionaires WW for 30 years. The US has the most but it has slowed significantly with ASIA gaining fast. People like Gates, Buffet etc. each are worth 80-100 billion but keep in mind a trillion is a 1000 billion. Last number I saw is the wealthiest 1% are worth 25 trillion and the middle class is worth 30 trillion. Of course this does not include future wealth. Here is an estimate of entitlement costs ( i just pulled the first one I could find). its not a pretty picture and you won't get the press talking about it. Hard to say but it is a big problem and our politicians particularly the most recent one made it much worse. www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/17/you-think-the-deficit-is-bad-federal-unfunded-liabilities-exceed-127-trillion/#7fcd292e9bf8
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Post by westbranch on Feb 27, 2017 21:13:52 GMT -6
Freeborn, I think your walking a slippery slope calling SS an entitlement. A lot of folks gave the gov't a lot of money toward that system and think they should get it back. SS tax is 6.2% paid by employee and 6.2% paid by the employer. Someone that worked 40 years earning 60k a year would pay in 297k. There current benefits would be around 27k a year, it only takes 11 years to hit the amount they put in. This is using nominal $, not adjusted for inflation. Medicare is even worse, that same person would have paid in (half paid by employer) $69,600 to medicare, which goes fast with a couple joint replacements and a little time in a nursing home. Talked to a CPA at seminar last year who had a client that worked for a big tech company and paid in just over $1M in the Obamacare 0.9% additional medicare tax.
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Post by westbranch on Feb 27, 2017 21:18:02 GMT -6
For a little quick match, the person that paid in the $1M of Obamacare tax would have still paid the regular 2.9% medicare tax on all earned income. So almost $4m in medicare tax off one W2, ouch.
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Post by smsmith on Feb 27, 2017 21:19:44 GMT -6
This is a depressing thread
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Post by Freeborn on Feb 27, 2017 21:23:19 GMT -6
Freeborn, I think your walking a slippery slope calling SS an entitlement. A lot of folks gave the gov't a lot of money toward that system and think they should get it back. SS tax is 6.2% paid by employee and 6.2% paid by the employer. Someone that worked 40 years earning 60k a year would pay in 297k. There current benefits would be around 27k a year, it only takes 11 years to hit the amount they put in. This is using nominal $, not adjusted for inflation. Medicare is even worse, that same person would have paid in (half paid by employer) $69,600 to medicare, which goes fast with a couple joint replacements and a little time in a nursing home. Talked to a CPA at seminar last year who had a client that worked for a big tech company and paid in just over $1M in the Obamacare 0.9% additional medicare tax. That's amazing, just shows you how a change in tax code can really affect you. I bet this guy was not happy.
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Post by sd51555 on Feb 27, 2017 21:29:26 GMT -6
Ok, so let's say....SS is no more. Do we as tax payers get that 12.4% to invest as we wish? Oh lord no. Every penny is needed to keep the ponzi scheme going. I'd gladly sign away what I paid in if I could opt out right now. That'd bump my personal savings/investment rate from 20% to 32%. I'd do just fine on that and probably quit working years sooner, and with far more $$. Politics aside, you can't afford to shove your head in the sand by thinking it'll still be there. How many times has it been cut into already? Most don't notice it, but look at how the rate has changed over the years. Then come along other gimmicks. Social security wasn't always taxable as income. Enter 1983, SS is now taxable and the first bump forward in full retirement age happens. Shit it wasn't until 1990 that the SS tax rate quit going up every 1-3 years. Thanks to advances in modern medicine, nutrition, and a healthy surplus of attorneys, people are living longer, collecting longer, using a far larger amount of old age and end of life care, and we're better at legally shielding the family fortune from the nursing home, thus dumping the load back onto medicaid, or as I like to call it, Uncle Chris. This 27 year honeymoon of no new gimmicks will have to end and benefit or income tax erosion will have to resume.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Feb 28, 2017 2:35:10 GMT -6
It better be there when I get there. They are taking another $20k out of my account on April 18th for social security tax my accountant said. At the fucking rate I pay in for self employment, I should get a huge monthly paycheck at 62! Of course I won't because some spear chucker or camel humper will be spending what I sent in on the 19th of April! Sick world we live in!
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Post by Freeborn on Feb 28, 2017 6:30:34 GMT -6
It better be there when I get there. They are taking another $20k out of my account on April 18th for social security tax my accountant said. At the fucking rate I pay in for self employment, I should get a huge monthly paycheck at 62! Of course I won't because some spear chucker or camel humper will be spending what I sent in on the 19th of April! Sick world we live in! Yep, sense your a self employed small business you get to pay both sides of FICA. You can setup your own 401k and max your contributions (I think the contribution threshold is 59k if your over 50) and lower your taxable income.
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Post by badbrad on Feb 28, 2017 7:15:35 GMT -6
I think the answer is Matt for guys our age nobody really knows at all. I don't think we should bank on it. But it sure would be a nice bonus.
Now most of the other fossils on here will be able to hopefully get out what they paid in. I would guess about 15-20 years from now is when things get iffy.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Feb 28, 2017 7:19:44 GMT -6
It better be there when I get there. They are taking another $20k out of my account on April 18th for social security tax my accountant said. At the fucking rate I pay in for self employment, I should get a huge monthly paycheck at 62! Of course I won't because some spear chucker or camel humper will be spending what I sent in on the 19th of April! Sick world we live in! Yep, sense your a self employed small business you get to pay both sides of FICA. You can setup your own 401k and max your contributions (I think the contribution threshold is 59k if your over 50) and lower your taxable income. Like I told my accountant, fuck that! I am done being forced into more money into savings to be taxed later at what rate? As I said, fuck that!
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