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Post by Catscratch on Mar 24, 2021 5:55:02 GMT -6
After reading this thread one thing comes to mind for me and should for everyone. Get a title opinion by a qualified land attorney before you purchase...... Many years ago my brother's father in-law was driving down a rural road and saw a realty sign for a chunk of land with his buddy's sign. He called purchased his realtor buddy and paid for cash for the land without a title search. He built a spec house on it. What he didn't know was some kids had been moving realty signs around from one plot of land down the road to other plots so he actually paid cash without a title search for the wrong land. Back then before 911 there were very few street numbers along roads. It belonged to a couple from New Jersey who hadn't set foot on the land in 10 years. They took possession of their new house. He eventually settled with them but, lost a ton of money. Holy crap, what a horror story!
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Post by Sandbur on Mar 24, 2021 6:36:48 GMT -6
I have about 16 acres with a road through it that leads to 5-6 lake homes. The road has been used for decades and I had no problem with it. The furthest home owner wanted a deeded road or designated access and they had just bought the place.
Well, I own 25 feet of lakeshore just beyond their home and had accessed it every year via crossing their lot .Former owners and I had no problem with that access and wetland behind it prevented other access. The owner on the other side had cut me off by building a garage on my access. It used to be drive through from either side.
We went back and forth for awhile, but the end result was they got their designated roadway and I have an easement along the back and west side of their lot.
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Post by Sandbur on Mar 24, 2021 6:48:09 GMT -6
There are numerous areas in central and northern Minnesota where what has been considered section lines are off 20-30 feet. New surveys can show things differently than traditional acceptance of lines or older surveys.
I know of one case where a central Minnesota judge sided with a multi generational farmer where the fence line had been the agreed upon boundary. The conflicting landowner was a new neighbor.
The farmer did give up a bit of his woods, but kept his field access road and his tillable acres. The new landowner wanted it all and had fenced and barricaded the road per the survey.
My point is that the issues are very cloudy on these strips of land and access. At some point, you have to decide if it is worth the fight or if you can give up something in return and compromise.
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Post by caveman on Mar 24, 2021 7:04:57 GMT -6
There are numerous areas in central and northern Minnesota where what has been considered section lines are off 20-30 feet. New surveys can show things differently than traditional acceptance of lines or older surveys. I know of one case where a central Minnesota judge sided with a multi generational farmer where the fence line had been the agreed upon boundary. The conflicting landowner was a new neighbor. The farmer did give up a bit of his woods, but kept his field access road and his tillable acres. The new landowner wanted it all and had fenced and barricaded the road per the survey. My point is that the issues are very cloudy on these strips of land and access. At some point, you have to decide if it is worth the fight or if you can give up something in return and compromise. Thank-you.
The rules about platted public roadways are a little less cloudy... hopefully. Things like roads can't be vacated without a public hearing to document it, and official minutes for those meetings to document facts of what happened at the meeting included how the street was split upon being vacated. This isn't a question of if it is my property or the neighbor's, it's a question of it is public or the neighbor's.
If I do end up calling the cops prior to passing on the property in question and the dude stops me from using it, then the cops will be able to decide to ticket me for trespassing, or ticket him for blocking roadway, or nothing and let the Hatfields and McCoys figure it out on their own.
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Post by nhmountains on Mar 24, 2021 7:07:06 GMT -6
Many years ago my brother's father in-law was driving down a rural road and saw a realty sign for a chunk of land with his buddy's sign. He called purchased his realtor buddy and paid for cash for the land without a title search. He built a spec house on it. What he didn't know was some kids had been moving realty signs around from one plot of land down the road to other plots so he actually paid cash without a title search for the wrong land. Back then before 911 there were very few street numbers along roads. It belonged to a couple from New Jersey who hadn't set foot on the land in 10 years. They took possession of their new house. He eventually settled with them but, lost a ton of money. Holy crap, what a horror story! Well, he wasn’t a very nice person before that happened. He got humbled from the experience. Karma
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Post by smsmith on Mar 24, 2021 7:11:44 GMT -6
I think I'd be looking at MNDOT statutes instead of trespassing laws. I don't understand cartway laws, but it seems they might be applicable here.
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Post by nhmountains on Mar 24, 2021 7:14:43 GMT -6
There are numerous areas in central and northern Minnesota where what has been considered section lines are off 20-30 feet. New surveys can show things differently than traditional acceptance of lines or older surveys. I know of one case where a central Minnesota judge sided with a multi generational farmer where the fence line had been the agreed upon boundary. The conflicting landowner was a new neighbor. The farmer did give up a bit of his woods, but kept his field access road and his tillable acres. The new landowner wanted it all and had fenced and barricaded the road per the survey. My point is that the issues are very cloudy on these strips of land and access. At some point, you have to decide if it is worth the fight or if you can give up something in return and compromise. Thank-you.
The rules about platted public roadways are a little less cloudy... hopefully. Things like roads can't be vacated without a public hearing to document it, and official minutes for those meetings to document facts of what happened at the meeting included how the street was split upon being vacated. This isn't a question of if it is my property or the neighbor's, it's a question of it is public or the neighbor's.
If I do end up calling the cops prior to passing on the property in question and the dude stops me from using it, then the cops will be able to decide to ticket me for trespassing, or ticket him for blocking roadway, or nothing and let the Hatfields and McCoys figure it out on their own.
Here in NH we have a class 6 road designation. It means they’re not maintained but, the town has the right to improve the road in the future. Landowners can’t build in them. Atv clubs are now searching out those roads and using them which is creating a stir. I agree with you that a town road shouldn’t be vacated without a hearing. Hopefully this works out for you.
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Post by caveman on Mar 24, 2021 7:18:48 GMT -6
I think I'd be looking at MNDOT statutes instead of trespassing laws. I don't understand cartway laws, but it seems they might be applicable here. I get what you are saying.
I think they are what is more applicable here, too. First, it must be established if it's a road.
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Post by smsmith on Mar 24, 2021 7:32:28 GMT -6
There is a "road" that cuts through the section east of me. At one point, it was a township road. At some other time in the past (none of the long term locals I've asked know anything about it) it became an unmaintained township road and the land owner who owns on both sides controlled the access. It is still there, but nobody can use it except the landowner. It's kind of a PITA as there is no way to cut through to the next dirt road except for going a couple miles out of the way. I have no intention of challenging the guy since I'm a transplant and it doesn't impact access to my land. If it did, I would certainly at least hire a real estate attorney to determine if the process was legal.
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