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Post by kooch on Dec 30, 2021 9:20:36 GMT -6
I saw a youtube video from one of the famous habitat consultants about conifer planting best practices for deer bedding. In it, he talks about;
1. Having some diversity, woody browse and grass interspersed since deer "eat five times a day". 2. Not planting the trees in straight rows because deer won't bed if it's symmetrical.
I think #1 would probably just happen naturally unless I really made an effort to make it a mono-culture. Some sort of shrubs are bound to grow on their own. My lazy nature will help me there. What about #2? My lazy nature may not be of benefit here. Planting in rows sure seems easier. For screening, it's obvious you do multiple rows, offset. But for bedding, do I need to do the random clusters thing or can I plant in rows there too? Sure would be easier to maintain in the first few years if they are in rows.
Once mature, the conifer blocks will be the only real cover for at least half a mile in any direction, after the corn is harvested.
Does it matter?
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Post by smsmith on Dec 30, 2021 10:05:21 GMT -6
I can't answer if it'll matter in SoDak, no experience.
When he says to not plant in rows and to maintain diversity I think he is probably referring to not planting in blocks of evenly spaced rows. On my folks' old place we planted a couple acres to red and white pines. The original intention was to shear them and sell some for Christmas trees..that never happened. However, the blocks grew well and we filled in missing spots every year for a few years. The first few years it was a deer desert. They'd run through, but that was it. I'd say years 5-12 were great for deer bedding. The pines hadn't filled in and there was still plenty of grass and shrubs/bushes growing amongst them. Sometime shortly thereafter, the pines canopied and choked out most everything growing under them. Back to deer desert. Once Dad had the first cutting taken for pulp (year 20 maybe?), deer began using the area again because the understory came back.
Here, I have only planted a few evergreens in straight lines. Those are along the roads for a screen (if I live long enough). Other than that, I have always attempted to plant evergreens in scattered "pockets". I like using a diamond shaped planting (or repeated diamonds if there's enough space) for bedding. I also use evergreen along my trails and deer sidewalks in an attempt to funnel movement (again, if I live long enough).
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Post by kooch on Dec 30, 2021 10:09:37 GMT -6
"(again, if I live long enough)"
I have that dilemma too. Fast with switch and shrubs might win the day. I haven't planted anything but a couple ditch Spruce from Koochiching in the yard.
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Post by smsmith on Dec 30, 2021 10:12:39 GMT -6
"(again, if I live long enough)" I have that dilemma too. Fast with switch and shrubs might win the day. I haven't planted anything but a couple ditch Spruce from Koochiching in the yard. What zone are you in there? Do you get pretty consistent snow cover before the brutal cold hits? Decent soil OM? Giant miscanthus may be worth a shot
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Post by kooch on Dec 30, 2021 10:16:30 GMT -6
"(again, if I live long enough)" I have that dilemma too. Fast with switch and shrubs might win the day. I haven't planted anything but a couple ditch Spruce from Koochiching in the yard. What zone are you in there? Do you get pretty consistent snow cover before the brutal cold hits? Decent soil OM? Giant miscanthus may be worth a shot 4b. Great soil OM I think. I mean, it's nice and dark, but I haven't seen test results. It's not sand.
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Post by smsmith on Dec 30, 2021 10:25:52 GMT -6
What zone are you in there? Do you get pretty consistent snow cover before the brutal cold hits? Decent soil OM? Giant miscanthus may be worth a shot 4b. Great soil OM I think. I mean, it's nice and dark, but I haven't seen test results. It's not sand. I'd say miscanthus would be worth trying.
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 30, 2021 12:45:19 GMT -6
I f you plant those conifers with a tractor and tree planter, you can come back in 2-3 years and move some out by hand. It would depend on your initial spacing and the variety of conifer.
I have done that in two areas. I need to transplant the trees in early spring. Two shovels and two buckets and I moved trees less than knee high. One shovel where you dig and one shovel where you plant.
I like the screen of conifers and then just random clumps of them with shrubs and grass in between. With spruce and my soils, transplanting sets them back 2-3 years. I like that diversity from the original screen planting.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Dec 30, 2021 12:47:08 GMT -6
I saw a youtube video from one of the famous habitat consultants about conifer planting best practices for deer bedding. In it, he talks about; 1. Having some diversity, woody browse and grass interspersed since deer "eat five times a day". 2. Not planting the trees in straight rows because deer won't bed if it's symmetrical. I think #1 would probably just happen naturally unless I really made an effort to make it a mono-culture. Some sort of shrubs are bound to grow on their own. My lazy nature will help me there. What about #2? My lazy nature may not be of benefit here. Planting in rows sure seems easier. For screening, it's obvious you do multiple rows, offset. But for bedding, do I need to do the random clusters thing or can I plant in rows there too? Sure would be easier to maintain in the first few years if they are in rows. Once mature, the conifer blocks will be the only real cover for at least half a mile in any direction, after the corn is harvested. Does it matter? Deer will bed in conifers in straight rows, but I agree it might be better to stagger the planting. I like to mix it up if there are 3 rows, I like 2 spruce and one cedar or pine. We have done some L shaped tree rows with success. Deer will definitely bed in the rows. Personally I like 5 row screens or shelterbelts with at one row of shrub and one of oak/hackberry or something.
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Post by benmnwi on Dec 30, 2021 12:58:34 GMT -6
When I drive through South Dakota on I90 it seems like all of the large windbreaks are planted in straight rows and I'm guessing that's because they are planted using pull behind tree planters. Red Cedar seems to be the preferred conifer type out there. I'm pretty confident that the deer will bed in those straight rows since they are the best cover around.
I planted some 5 row conifer screens on my Wisconsin place and they grew very well. In hindsight, I wish I planted more rows of shrubs rather than mostly conifers. If I had to start over again I would probably plant a row or two of shrubs followed by a row of spruce. Then for the last couple rows I would plant a mixture of shrubs, some random spruce and some open gaps all randomly spaced. I did that in a couple areas unintentionally and it really turned out well - I just planted a few spruce in the former field and then nature filled in the rest with shrubs, grass, weeds and trees. The solid rows of shrubs help catch snow before it gets to the solid spruce rows. Then the more random mix of conifers, shrubs and weeds has less snow and seems to get a lot of wildlife use.
The deer seem to like bedding on the south side of the random conifer patches where possible, so having a bunch of random conifer patches here and there might make the south dakota deer very happy.
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 30, 2021 12:59:51 GMT -6
. This is an old picture of one of the areas where I moved spruce by hand. Shrubs fill in for me if I keep the fire out. The exception would be areas of reed canary grass. You can see the taller spruce to the left and straight ahead in the picture. They were not moved.
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Post by terrifictom on Dec 30, 2021 17:41:19 GMT -6
I saw a youtube video from one of the famous habitat consultants about conifer planting best practices for deer bedding. In it, he talks about; 1. Having some diversity, woody browse and grass interspersed since deer "eat five times a day". 2. Not planting the trees in straight rows because deer won't bed if it's symmetrical. I think #1 would probably just happen naturally unless I really made an effort to make it a mono-culture. Some sort of shrubs are bound to grow on their own. My lazy nature will help me there. What about #2? My lazy nature may not be of benefit here. Planting in rows sure seems easier. For screening, it's obvious you do multiple rows, offset. But for bedding, do I need to do the random clusters thing or can I plant in rows there too? Sure would be easier to maintain in the first few years if they are in rows. Once mature, the conifer blocks will be the only real cover for at least half a mile in any direction, after the corn is harvested. Does it matter? Planted a 4 row staggered red pine screen between my food plot and neighbors field about 15 or 16 years ago. Deer bed under the pines all the time.
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Post by kooch on Dec 30, 2021 19:15:20 GMT -6
I think I'll just pile in as many as I can fit in the area I have and see what survives. If I need to thin them out and move one or two later I will.
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Post by Reagan on Dec 30, 2021 19:25:51 GMT -6
My neighbor has a big stand of pine that’s probably 15 -20 years old. It was great bedding years ago. Deer still bed there because it’s a sanctuary but not as much because you can see so far. Every spot that has a dead pine is a little island of green in the summer.
If I owned it I would take the saw to a few trees here and there. I think it would make a big difference.
If my spruce/pine plantings get to that point in my life time, I’ll do the same with them.
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Post by kooch on Dec 30, 2021 19:40:19 GMT -6
Mine will be between a half an acre and two acres. I have a couple of spots in mind.
The other option is getting a solid foundation of switch going first, then killing a few spots and planting clusters of spruce and shrubs... so many options. Making a bad decision isn't the end of the world. But waiting 5+ years to decide if it was a mistake or not is going to be tough. That's a lot of wasted time for a guy my age.
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Post by benmnwi on Dec 30, 2021 20:28:40 GMT -6
Mine will be between a half an acre and two acres. I have a couple of spots in mind. The other option is getting a solid foundation of switch going first, then killing a few spots and planting clusters of spruce and shrubs... so many options. Making a bad decision isn't the end of the world. But waiting 5+ years to decide if it was a mistake or not is going to be tough. That's a lot of wasted time for a guy my age. I wouldn't wait to plant trees-
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