thetrooper
Full Member
https://youtube.com/channel/UCTABKyXSkmW2MWSabMLnQHw
Posts: 106
Likes: 171
|
Post by thetrooper on Jan 25, 2022 23:11:32 GMT -6
So after my recent kill I wanted to share the methods I have been using the last 2 years to profile bucks on my property. Last year the hunting didnt last very long as both me and my woman killed bucks on our first and only farm hunts of the season. And the method really didnt evolve until after we had tagged out and I had a better idea of what we needed to do. I know that I've rambled about my farm before but for those who dont know its 100 acres in Ohio. I started doing habitat work almost 10 years ago, but this post isn't really about the habitat. I have always ran trail cameras but usually just 2-3 of them. I would look at the pictures save a few to show friends and family but never really had any system or coherent strategy for using them. It was just fun to get pics and see what was going on. Up until the last few years good quality trail cameras were expensive and for whatever reason I never really invested in then much but that has changed. I have shit service at the farm so cell cams are basically out. However I'm looking at some different service providers. 2020 I bought 10 regular sd card cameras and added 2 more 2021. It was a pricey investment but a good one. I felt like I was doing the local wildlife a great service providing food and cover but when it came down to practical hunting methods I was lacking. Dont get me wrong I've been knockin down does, mid level bucks and a few mature bucks but I needed a system of hunting and I really wanted to only kill the top tier bucks on a consistent basis. Basically I run cameras and I check easy to access cards on a weekly basis. I also run a handful of deep recon cameras that I dont pull until the season is over. I give each buck that is 2 years old and older a separate profile. I take copies of each picture gathered and after I'm done checking write down the data. If I get a series of 3-4 pictures of a buck I usually only save 1 and saving the pictures isn't totally necessary since you can just write down the data. The data I write down is: Date, time, location, and which direction the buck is heading. On animals that I'm trying to kill or ones that make it through the season and I will try to kill the next year I take it one step further and backtrack the historic weather data for my area using www.timeanddate.com This website allows you to see everything in past weather for probably 10+ back. So if you have a bunch of old pictures you can still backtrack them. It shows temp, barometric pressure, and most importantly wind speed and direction. I have found that some if not all bucks have different personalities and they all like to use the wind to their advantage. I have several good stand locations that after looking at data are completley a waste of time to hunt unless the wind is in a certain direction. For example I have a stand called applebottom or AB. I can hunt it on any southern variant yes and I will not spook deer, I will see small bucks and does, but that doesnt mean shit because certain bucks WILL NOT come into that location scent blind on a south wind. Another reason I save all the data is because bucks come back into areas and travel almost on an annual pattern. I can expect bucks to show up at the same time every year. I also believe that the bucks are very in tune with the does and know when and where to be and what does come into heat certain times of the year. For an example I had a ridiculous amount of buck activity on Oct 26-28 2020. Come May 22, 2021 I saw a bunch of newborn fawns on my turkey cams which non coincidentally matched the gestational period of does getting inpregnated from oct 26-28 Deer hunting is all about stacking the odds in your favor and as you guys know big bucks dont tolerate anything suspicious so you cant be going in there blowing up stands, leaving scent and disturbing the area. When I go in to hunt I have a certain criteria that must be met before I even go out as follows Buck currently active Good wind direction Good weather Prior year activity + or - 1 day That gives me a start with baseline before I go in. Now below all these extra criteria are not necessary but just icing on the cake. Wind with prior movement per location Cold front temp drop Hard weather or rain break just prior Hunt day 3 after any intrusion Overhead or underfoot moon peak Rising BP over 30.00 If you have a day where some extra criteria or all 10 are met its gonna be a good hunt. Why take a chance blowing off a giant buck that you spend all the time and money working your land and habitat to keep around? Another thing I do I mark down any human disturbance I do. When I hunt I mark it down When I go out to check cards I mark it down. When I go put corn out I mark it down. When I if I have to mow or do anything out there I mark it down. That way if I see a drop in activity or an absence of a buck it gives me some reason to why. I also write down detailed memos on all my hunts and also anything relevant to the area like neighboring crops anything that pops up in my sick head. It gives you a lot to dig through when your planning out a move or scratching your head wondering where that buck went or where he might be. It also gives you a lot of confidence going into a hunt knowing your odds and being honest with what you can expect out of a hunt. When you keep all your historic data and apply it to hunting you will expose a weakness in a mature bucks armor. When you know what type of wind he moves in locations you're gonna be one step ahead. When you record his movement and you get him coming or going right at legal light your gonna have an idea on the general area he is bedding. The buck I killed this year was killed on a WSW wind. I knew from years past that if he came into my tower blind there was very high probability it was on a western variant wind. And in relation to where i thought he was bedding I kept my scent out just barely but he still had an approach with somewhat favorable wind for himself. Aside from him being currently active I also knew he was historically heavily using the area for the time of year. My hunting plan might seem over intensive and a lot of work but I'm just trying to do all i can to harvest the biggest bucks available to me. Keep good season long food sources and stay out of the cover. The single best habitat improvement is staying the fuck out if it unless your hunting or draggin a deer. Here's some pictures of what my profiles look like. Save that trail cam data and put it to use!!!
|
|
|
Post by Sandbur on Jan 26, 2022 5:51:36 GMT -6
I am impressed with your method and the work you put into the hunt.
Serious question, here. Can you still enjoy the hunt after all of this work?
Decades ago, before personal computers, I kept extensive fishing records on walleye and Muskie fishing, I simply grew tired of it.
I used to do an extensive scent control procedure for rifle and now hunting. With age, I have just grown tired of it and was not enjoying the hunt or fishing as much. I just wanted to get out and enjoy as much time as possible instead of spending so much pre and post hunt/fish time.
With age, my perspectives changed and I am not as intense about the harvest but just want to be there. I do hunt the wind and have reasonable success. I have 3 plus stands that are only hunted with specific winds and just during the rut.
Once again, I am very impressed with your attention to detail. You will learn so much more than the rest of us.
|
|
|
Post by smsmith on Jan 26, 2022 6:35:45 GMT -6
I used to keep detailed notes (not as detailed as yours thetrooper) on bucks and buck movement maybe 30 years ago. It did help me learn about buck behavior and how to hunt them. I also was crazed about trying to be scent free. Now, I'm too old to put that much time and thought into it. I hunt when I want and when I think the bucks will be moving in the area I hunt Obviously, I do pay attention to wind direction as well as accessing and leaving stands.
|
|
|
Post by Catscratch on Jan 26, 2022 8:50:10 GMT -6
I'm with you on year to year patterns being the same down to the day. Witnessed it many times.
Same spot within a day of a year apart. Pretty sure same buck, on the same path, at about the same hour of the day.
This buck I've either seen or had on camera multiple years in a row on the same date (within 3 days). Those 3 days are the only time of the year I've ever seen a hint of him. Not around otherwise.
Pick your brain on something. I've noticed traveling rut bucks tend to stick around about 3 days, then they are gone again. These are bucks I don't see any other time of the year. Have you noticed the same thing?
Another? I believe that in a pond that the most dominant bass claims the best cover. Catch that bass and the next dominant in line takes over that cover. I tend to catch big fish in the same spot time and time again. I believe mature bucks to be the same. If a dominant buck leaves the best cover then the next in line fills in. What says you?
|
|
|
Post by Sandbur on Jan 26, 2022 9:13:59 GMT -6
I'm with you on year to year patterns being the same down to the day. Witnessed it many times. Same spot within a day of a year apart. Pretty sure same buck, on the same path, at about the same hour of the day. This buck I've either seen or had on camera multiple years in a row on the same date (within 3 days). Those 3 days are the only time of the year I've ever seen a hint of him. Not around otherwise. Pick your brain on something. I've noticed traveling rut bucks tend to stick around about 3 days, then they are gone again. These are bucks I don't see any other time of the year. Have you noticed the same thing? Another? I believe that in a pond that the most dominant bass claims the best cover. Catch that bass and the next dominant in line takes over that cover. I tend to catch big fish in the same spot time and time again. I believe mature bucks to be the same. If a dominant buck leaves the best cover then the next in line fills in. What says you? . I feel some bucks are home bodies and some only come through for a few days in the rut. By home bodies, I would think about 3-4 sections in this farm country for summer range. I suspect occasional bucks in the fall come from miles away. With musky fishing, if you catch a musky in a spot, there will probably be another one there under similar conditions. Similar conditions would be wind direction and speed, sunlight/cloud cover, feed source staying the same, and water level flow or level not changing. Feed sources are migratory in lakes.
|
|
|
Post by Bwoods11 on Jan 26, 2022 13:33:41 GMT -6
That is great organization!!
I never write much down, but maybe I should. I would say I’ve got a limited photographic memory. I can remember a football play from 10 years ago… the same with a hunt, but can’t remember where I put my keys a few hours ago!! 🤔
I think your system can really stack the odds in your favor, thanks for sharing.
|
|
thetrooper
Full Member
https://youtube.com/channel/UCTABKyXSkmW2MWSabMLnQHw
Posts: 106
Likes: 171
|
Post by thetrooper on Jan 26, 2022 14:09:08 GMT -6
I am impressed with your method and the work you put into the hunt. Serious question, here. Can you still enjoy the hunt after all of this work? Decades ago, before personal computers, I kept extensive fishing records on walleye and Muskie fishing, I simply grew tired of it. I used to do an extensive scent control procedure for rifle and now hunting. With age, I have just grown tired of it and was not enjoying the hunt or fishing as much. I just wanted to get out and enjoy as much time as possible instead of spending so much pre and post hunt/fish time. With age, my perspectives changed and I am not as intense about the harvest but just want to be there. I do hunt the wind and have reasonable success. I have 3 plus stands that are only hunted with specific winds and just during the rut. Once again, I am very impressed with your attention to detail. You will learn so much more than the rest of us. I definitely still enjoy the hunt. Its completely different from how I used to hunt though. When I see bucks, big or small I recognize them immediately like you would a person. One thing that's also a lot different is that there is never really the unknown when it comes to new deer. I will have tabs or knowledge along with dozens or hundreds of pictures on any buck before I ever encounter him in the field. I do get some new ones late season but qo far nothing 4+ year old has come along late in the season. The latest I've ever gotten a mature buck without prior knowledge is Oct 17. Of course that can change and I'm just learning. Who knows I might get tired of it I've only been doing this 2 years. But yes it is a lot of work. The best part of this style though is when I go out the odds are basically a coin toss if I'm going to encounter one of my big bucks. Gives you an incredibly more realistic odds when you go out and know what is going on out there. We hunted 17 times this year and had 6 encounters with 4+ year old deer including the kill. And the times we didnt see one they were either daylight active at another location the same day as hunt, or they were there the day before or after we hunted if not hours away. I also have 3 young kids a wife and another baby on the way and work 50+ hours a week so I have to make my available hunting time as fruitful as possible. Another thing is that 100 acres is still a small farm in my book and if I was to hunt it another way I would be educating deer and or wasting time hunting locations at the wrong time. I also hunt public land a few times a year down in GA for bear and hogs. That type of hunting is on foot with a rifle in vast wildness so that kind of gives me all the "just go hunt" I need haha. The appalachian mountains and the southern swamps are a whole nether animal. I can also use the GA hunting to let off some steam so I'm not getting undisciplined and blowing up my own farm
|
|
|
Post by Sandbur on Jan 26, 2022 14:17:16 GMT -6
I am impressed with your method and the work you put into the hunt. Serious question, here. Can you still enjoy the hunt after all of this work? Decades ago, before personal computers, I kept extensive fishing records on walleye and Muskie fishing, I simply grew tired of it. I used to do an extensive scent control procedure for rifle and now hunting. With age, I have just grown tired of it and was not enjoying the hunt or fishing as much. I just wanted to get out and enjoy as much time as possible instead of spending so much pre and post hunt/fish time. With age, my perspectives changed and I am not as intense about the harvest but just want to be there. I do hunt the wind and have reasonable success. I have 3 plus stands that are only hunted with specific winds and just during the rut. Once again, I am very impressed with your attention to detail. You will learn so much more than the rest of us. I definitely still enjoy the hunt. Its completely different from how I used to hunt though. When I see bucks, big or small I recognize them immediately like you would a person. One thing that's also a lot different is that there is never really the unknown when it comes to new deer. I will have tabs or knowledge along with dozens or hundreds of pictures on any buck before I ever encounter him in the field. I do get some new ones late season but qo far nothing 4+ year old has come along late in the season. The latest I've ever gotten a mature buck without prior knowledge is Oct 17. Of course that can change and I'm just learning. Who knows I might get tired of it I've only been doing this 2 years. But yes it is a lot of work. The best part of this style though is when I go out the odds are basically a coin toss if I'm going to encounter one of my big bucks. Gives you an incredibly more realistic odds when you go out and know what is going on out there. We hunted 17 times this year and had 6 encounters with 4+ year old deer including the kill. And the times we didnt see one they were either daylight active at another location the same day as hunt, or they were there the day before or after we hunted if not hours away. I also have 3 young kids a wife and another baby on the way and work 50+ hours a week so I have to make my available hunting time as fruitful as possible. Another thing is that 100 acres is still a small farm in my book and if I was to hunt it another way I would be educating deer and or wasting time hunting locations at the wrong time. I also hunt public land a few times a year down in GA for bear and hogs. That type of hunting is on foot with a rifle in vast wildness so that kind of gives me all the "just go hunt" I need haha. The appalachian mountains and the southern swamps are a whole nether animal. I can also use the GA hunting to let off some steam so I'm not getting undisciplined and blowing up my own farm I bow hunt a different piece of ground to preserve the area where I live. No offense intended on my part, but I somewhat enjoy not knowing exactly which bucks are around. I accept that there are always some decent bucks in the area, but am no longer so intense about knowing the specifics. Twenty years ago, I felt like you!
|
|
thetrooper
Full Member
https://youtube.com/channel/UCTABKyXSkmW2MWSabMLnQHw
Posts: 106
Likes: 171
|
Post by thetrooper on Jan 26, 2022 14:19:25 GMT -6
I'm with you on year to year patterns being the same down to the day. Witnessed it many times. Same spot within a day of a year apart. Pretty sure same buck, on the same path, at about the same hour of the day. This buck I've either seen or had on camera multiple years in a row on the same date (within 3 days). Those 3 days are the only time of the year I've ever seen a hint of him. Not around otherwise. Pick your brain on something. I've noticed traveling rut bucks tend to stick around about 3 days, then they are gone again. These are bucks I don't see any other time of the year. Have you noticed the same thing? Another? I believe that in a pond that the most dominant bass claims the best cover. Catch that bass and the next dominant in line takes over that cover. I tend to catch big fish in the same spot time and time again. I believe mature bucks to be the same. If a dominant buck leaves the best cover then the next in line fills in. What says you? Man that definitely looks like the same buck to me. Yeah that yearly pattern is totally a thing. I've heard some other guys talk about it on podcasts, but I also started noticing certain days of the year were just absolutely fire. Always seeing the bucks. I dont have many bucks that stay around for only 3 days. I had a nice one last year that was here for 12 days in peak rut then left or died, but minimal interloper bucks here. I do get a mass array of yearling or 2 year olds that just are constantly circulating and coming and going but I think they're just trying to get in where they fit in. And I cant keep that many open tabs on the amount of smaller bucks. I think you are absolutely right on the prime locations being used by different mature bucks. They all have different attitudes and what not but they definitely use the same bedding, travel areas every year. If one get killed a new mature buck will take his spot. I think that mature bucks know what to do to stay alive and they all look for the same criteria in bedding etc as far as terrain and having advantageous wind goes bedding etc. Funny you say that too the big buck I just killed recently ran off a lesser 4 year old buck and I'm wondering if hes going to come back and assume the deceased bucks seat at the table now that hes dead lol.
|
|
|
Post by Bwoods11 on Jan 26, 2022 14:20:02 GMT -6
I can only think of one trophy buck that we shot on our properties in which the cameras helped a lot. Not saying they are not worth it, I have 20+ cameras out...maybe I am missing something overall? The cams I have out, really just help determine what is there and is it a shooter or not!
|
|
thetrooper
Full Member
https://youtube.com/channel/UCTABKyXSkmW2MWSabMLnQHw
Posts: 106
Likes: 171
|
Post by thetrooper on Jan 26, 2022 14:31:12 GMT -6
I definitely still enjoy the hunt. Its completely different from how I used to hunt though. When I see bucks, big or small I recognize them immediately like you would a person. One thing that's also a lot different is that there is never really the unknown when it comes to new deer. I will have tabs or knowledge along with dozens or hundreds of pictures on any buck before I ever encounter him in the field. I do get some new ones late season but qo far nothing 4+ year old has come along late in the season. The latest I've ever gotten a mature buck without prior knowledge is Oct 17. Of course that can change and I'm just learning. Who knows I might get tired of it I've only been doing this 2 years. But yes it is a lot of work. The best part of this style though is when I go out the odds are basically a coin toss if I'm going to encounter one of my big bucks. Gives you an incredibly more realistic odds when you go out and know what is going on out there. We hunted 17 times this year and had 6 encounters with 4+ year old deer including the kill. And the times we didnt see one they were either daylight active at another location the same day as hunt, or they were there the day before or after we hunted if not hours away. I also have 3 young kids a wife and another baby on the way and work 50+ hours a week so I have to make my available hunting time as fruitful as possible. Another thing is that 100 acres is still a small farm in my book and if I was to hunt it another way I would be educating deer and or wasting time hunting locations at the wrong time. I also hunt public land a few times a year down in GA for bear and hogs. That type of hunting is on foot with a rifle in vast wildness so that kind of gives me all the "just go hunt" I need haha. The appalachian mountains and the southern swamps are a whole nether animal. I can also use the GA hunting to let off some steam so I'm not getting undisciplined and blowing up my own farm I bow hunt a different piece of ground to preserve the area where I live. No offense intended on my part, but I somewhat enjoy not knowing exactly which bucks are around. I accept that there are always some decent bucks in the area, but am no longer so intense about knowing the specifics. Twenty years ago, I felt like you! None taken brother. I just know what we have out there and I know I had to hunt different to kill the big ones. I know what you mean it does take away some of the unknown to it. My kids are gonna be hunting soon too though so new doors will be opened for the hunting future gonna prioritize the kids to get involved with the hunt
|
|
thetrooper
Full Member
https://youtube.com/channel/UCTABKyXSkmW2MWSabMLnQHw
Posts: 106
Likes: 171
|
Post by thetrooper on Jan 26, 2022 14:32:13 GMT -6
I can only think of one trophy buck that we shot on our properties in which the cameras helped a lot. Not saying they are not worth it, I have 20+ cameras out...maybe I am missing something overall? The cams I have out, really just help determine what is there and is it a shooter or not! The way they help me most is knowing when and where I need to he the following year
|
|
|
Post by Bwoods11 on Jan 26, 2022 14:55:07 GMT -6
I can only think of one trophy buck that we shot on our properties in which the cameras helped a lot. Not saying they are not worth it, I have 20+ cameras out...maybe I am missing something overall? The cams I have out, really just help determine what is there and is it a shooter or not! The way they help me most is knowing when and where I need to he the following year I hear ya. A camera by a water hole in Iowa … made me think . I better sit by this more often in the future!
|
|
gsquared23
Full Member
Posts: 192
Likes: 332
Member is Online
|
Post by gsquared23 on Jan 26, 2022 17:04:31 GMT -6
I think the “just off” wind principle is one that I have recently learned, but that is a big part of being to upgrade from killing an occasional good 3 year old to mature bucks consistently. A mature buck travels everywhere on purpose and won’t travel without the wind in mind, whereas the 3 year old will literally throw caution to the wind looking for does. So if you are sitting with the wind perfectly in your face, perfect for you and perfectly wrong for the deer, you are hunting does and smaller bucks. Find the setup where the wind is ALMOST perfectly wrong for you and ALMOST perfectly right for the deer (“just off”) and that mature buck will feel confident enough to move during daylight. Combine that with a cold front, camera intel past or present, and a wind out of the east (shot 4 deer this year on east wind, 2 mature bucks on a NE), and your odds are better than good you’ll see something big.
I haven’t been running cameras on a single property long enough to develop a pattern, so I’ll take your word on the “same time, same place” theory, although I’ve heard Don Higgins and others notice the same pattern. I did catalog the decent bucks I had around this year, and I’ll look for similar conditions to hunt them if they are alive next year.
|
|
|
Post by Catscratch on Jan 26, 2022 18:52:20 GMT -6
Almost only hunt the "just off" wind you talk about. Also a huge believer in entrance and exit routes that don't bump deer. I think I've been called crazy for some of the stuff I do to sneak into and out of a stand.
|
|