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Post by smsmith on Mar 25, 2017 19:04:24 GMT -6
This has nothing to do with being able to kill a deer with a bow vs a gun. It has to do with making it more difficult to kill a deer during the time of year deer are most susceptible. Old argument. Cue the "it'll be too cold to hunt later in the month" and the "this is the way it's always been and it should stay that way" arguments. Moving the season back isn't gonna happen, so arguing about it is pretty much a waste of time (it is fun from time to time I suppose). There's a much better chance that APRs get expanded than changing the firearm season
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Post by Foggy on Mar 25, 2017 19:04:33 GMT -6
^^......OH......and I have about had it with the special interest hunting groups. I mean we got special hunts for kids.....speical hunts for veterans...special hunts for disadvantaged.....speical hunts for wheeling sprotsmen....special hunts for disabled (including letting them shoot out of vehicles) . Some of these guys are hunting all over the map - all the time. Just saying. I dunno....but I feel we have gone way over the line on some of this stuff. PERHAPS.....there is ONE DAY or Two days where special needs are addressed......but I don't see that all these extra hunting opportunities are good for the resource. I don't want to diminish anyones fun......but some of these things feel over the top to me. And they are growing each year. OK....rant over. (By the way......I just met a disabled (wheelchair vet) whom has a trophy room FILLED with the best mounts any FIVE ordinary guys would crave to have. Why?.....because he qualifies for all kinds of hunting scenarios around the country. Not sure how that sits with me.)
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Post by kl9 on Mar 25, 2017 19:15:15 GMT -6
This has nothing to do with being able to kill a deer with a bow vs a gun. It has to do with making it more difficult to kill a deer during the time of year deer are most susceptible. Old argument. Cue the "it'll be too cold to hunt later in the month" and the "this is the way it's always been and it should stay that way" arguments. Moving the season back isn't gonna happen, so arguing about it is pretty much a waste of time (it is fun from time to time I suppose). There's a much better chance that APRs get expanded than changing the firearm season It might be old, but those are weak counter arguments in my opinion. I know you don't make them either... I'm just saying they suck
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Post by smsmith on Mar 25, 2017 19:17:57 GMT -6
I agree they suck. Just the way it is here (I guess...from what I can figure out of these folks on this side of the river). A majority of Minnesotans still voted for Clinton...that should tell you something.
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Post by kl9 on Mar 25, 2017 19:18:08 GMT -6
The thing with APR is that it is CWD susceptible, whereas a post rut gun season is not (as much anyways)
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Post by Foggy on Mar 25, 2017 19:18:47 GMT -6
To me....this season stucture has to change for gun and bow. PERHAPS.....a two-day gun season prior to Nov 3th (or so) would satisfy many people.......and couple that with a ten day season to take place AFTER Nov 15 (or so) ending on the Thanksgiving weekend.?
Maybe that would satisfy the folks that want warm season hunting and the longer season hunters? Just get the prime rut season out of the equation for BOTH gun and bow. I've always thought the bow hunters get waaaay to long of a season compared to gun hunters.....but maybe thats just me??
I do think that if gun hunters are going to pay some kind of price.....they will want the bow hunters to have a little skin in the game too.
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Post by smsmith on Mar 25, 2017 19:22:38 GMT -6
The thing with APR is that it is CWD susceptible, whereas a post rut gun season is not (as much anyways) Oh, I wouldn't worry too much about that. While APR expansion has a better chance of happening than pushing the season back does....neither is likely to happen anytime soon. 1% chance is better than 0% chance If you're looking for a deer management plan that will improve the age structure of bucks in this state...or to substantially increase the number of deer in this state...I fear you're in for big disappointment. You likely have the best deer hunting right now that you'll ever have from this point forward in MN
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Post by kl9 on Mar 25, 2017 19:26:56 GMT -6
My deer hunting is good to be honest. I just feel for those who don't have good number or age structure.
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Post by smsmith on Mar 25, 2017 19:30:18 GMT -6
I do think that if gun hunters are going to pay some kind of price.....they will want the bow hunters to have a little skin in the game too. I've stated previously that I'd give up several weeks-month of archery season, as well as agreeing to not having archery hunting during peak rut. In exchange for those compromises, I'd like to see the firearm season pushed back 1-2 weeks, and zone 1 and muzzleloader seasons go to 9 day seasons....not to mention getting rid of all the special interest B.S. you mentioned previously. I'm willing to make compromises. I see very few "firearm first" deer hunters willing to do so. Pretty much moot points anyway
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Post by Sandbur on Mar 26, 2017 12:10:41 GMT -6
Stu and I have discussed this for hours, maybe even for years. Twenty five years ago I was an avid bow hunter and believer in what QDMA taught and would have been entirely in favor of this. But through the years my interest in bow hunting has faded to where I wonder if I should by a license for a 2.5 day bow hunt. Plus I have only seen late rut activity at one time in 49 years of Mn. deer hunting and that was a 7 month old doe that came in heat in Dec. I can't buy the argument that the gun hunt is keeping does from getting bred. They are all bred in early to mid Nov. from what I see in my position in areas 221 and also in 172 as well as for the few deer left up in the wolf country of northern Itasca county where I used to bow and rifle hunt.
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Post by Sandbur on Mar 26, 2017 12:22:01 GMT -6
I still have to say that I have respect for other opinions on this topic. My opinion has changed and who knows, it might change again. I would much rather shoot a deer with the rifle versus the bow. I have several friends in the 58-72 age group that no longer bow hunt and enjoy the rifle rut hunt. One of them is quite anti-bow hunting and I don't feel that is right. He can choose what is done on his side of the line, but shouldn't find fault on the other side of the property line.
At present my wife and daughters enjoy the rifle rut hunt, my older buddies and their kids and grandkids enjoy the hunt as it is. Why should we give up this enjoyment and use of the resource so a small group of bow hunters have the rut hunt to themselves?
Our deer hunter numbers are falling in many areas and we need to keep the youth and women involved. AND I DON'T MEAN BORROWING LICENSES!
I myself do not need to ever kill another big buck. Sure I will if I have the chance, but would much rather see my wife or daughters kill a nice one. A yearling tastes much better!
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Post by Sandbur on Mar 26, 2017 12:27:59 GMT -6
I would suggest a new petition where all seasons would be closed during the first two weeks of Nov. This will sort out the people who really want to do this for the benefit of the deer herd, from the bow hunters who want to limit all of the rut hunting to themselves. Bow hunters-give up the rut hunt and prove you are doing this in favor of the herd! You said a mouthful here Art. Seems lots of folks preach about how the other guy is greedy during deer season......but want to keep all of THEIR season open. Same goes for fishing......nobody wants to give-in on their way of doing it.....just want others to change. RE fishing: I maintain that 20% of the anglers spend 80% of the time on the water and catch OVER 80% of the fish. What about a license that allows you to fish for 30 days a year? 30 days is allot of fishing. You gotta punch out the date on the license for each day you fish (prior to going on the water). Then how about a 3 or 4 walleye limit? Surely our limits for some fish could be cut. AND some limits on how many fish you hook and release each day? - some guys are simply killing lots of fish......and we all pay for their over-fishing the fishery. IMHO The catch and release boys kill allot of fish especially in mid summer - so maybe you oughtta punch two slots (of your 30 days of fishing) when you fish in mid summer??? MAYBE.....if you punch out your tag of 30 fishing days.....then you pay 2x the price for another 10 day license. - or something to that effect. IF you wanna play - you gotta pay!!! I have concerns about the Mille Lacs fishery and the release mortality. I see they have closed the live bait/walleye season for a period in summer heat. Still, would we have been ahead to let each angler take home one walleye, or so many inches of walleye and that be it. Guys had a great winter on Mille Lacs and there must be fish out there.
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Post by smsmith on Mar 26, 2017 12:34:31 GMT -6
I wouldn't spend much time thinking about a change to the season start date Art, I'd say you and I have better chances of winning the Powerball twice each before any such change would happen.
As far as does getting bred...it does appear to me that every adult doe around here does get bred. Doe fawns do not appear to be bred (successfully anyway) as I've never seen a yearling doe with fawns. Seems each year I've got 2 yearling does hanging out together all summer/early fall.
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Post by Sandbur on Mar 26, 2017 12:53:08 GMT -6
I wouldn't spend much time thinking about a change to the season start date Art, I'd say you and I have better chances of winning the Powerball twice each before any such change would happen. As far as does getting bred...it does appear to me that every adult doe around here does get bred. Doe fawns do not appear to be bred (successfully anyway) as I've never seen a yearling doe with fawns. Seems each year I've got 2 yearling does hanging out together all summer/early fall. At one time I read an article on yearling doe breeding in our state from the SE to the NE and how it was calculated into the repro rates in our great computer model. I see an occasional yearling with a fawn. Maybe had one this year, but I just read an article in D and DH about does baby sitting each others fawns within family groups. So who knows... I did see a doe with triplets last year and usually there was a very small doe with a fawn accompanying her. I suspect I have slightly better chance of fawns getting bred in my neighborhood than yours,a s I suspect our nutrition is much better with much more ag. and when you win the Power Ball, I will gladly split it with you.
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Post by Satchmo on Mar 26, 2017 15:15:22 GMT -6
As dismal as the prospect may be, I think the best chance of changing the age structure and herd quality in local areas is to educate hunters on being able to control their own destiny as far as the quality of their hunts goes. I don't bow hunt, but my boys do. I stick to rifle and muzzy seasons. I enjoy the rut hunt very much, but the key to a quality herd is selective harvest, much like it is for fishing. The DNR seems far more willing to institute special regulations and limit changes for fishing, but I wouldn't count on them to do the same for deer hunting.
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