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Post by Freeborn on Sept 21, 2022 11:44:20 GMT -6
In the example you used at Papa Murphy's is the owner paying a wage that tips are not needed or is the owner paying wait staff wages and taking advantage of the employee ? If it is the owner taking advantage of employee than the beef is with the owner not employee. Fair point, and I think what we're seeing now is just the beginning. People aren't happy working at jobs where they feel underpaid, so they don't go to those jobs. I think what corporations will do is to automate many jobs rather than paying employees what they want to be paid. We're going to end up with a bunch of people who could have been working sitting at home and collecting "universal basic income" because machines are going to be doing the work. I don't know how much a Walmart personal shopper should make. $17 an hour to go shopping for other people seems like a lot of money, but since Walmart doesn't like giving people full time hours I imagine those people are lucky to make $25K a year...and not get any benefits from Walmart....and get their health insurance on the taxpayer's dime. I don't imagine it will be too much longer that humans will be doing that job. You already have this, look at the participation rate sense the Obama administration and it is clear people have to be getting some sort of payment otherwise how are they able to afford to live? My guess is there are programs that are covering a large portion of peoples costs. If all able-bodied people were in the workforce you would not have a shortage of people at many of these lower paying jobs. Things are changing that is for sure and it's not for the better. In regards to healthcare all you have to do is look at the spiraling cost of healthcare and its clear why all companies are running away from it. I have worked on many company P&L's and healthcare is one cost companies can do little to influence other than not hire FTE's. Healthcare costs have gone up at double digit percentages for decades while general CPI has been flat. The question is why? My guess is all the above leads to the same thing, a shortage of capital to afford to pay a decent wage to employees.
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Post by Foggy on Sept 21, 2022 14:40:57 GMT -6
I talked with a 16 year old kid at the golf course the other day. He was helping put my clubs on the cart and take them off where you customarily give them a tip for their efforts. Sometimes they do a nice job and put your clubs in the rack....and I suppose if you are unable they will put them in your car if you ask them and tip approrpieately.
This kid told me about his old job that he had to give up as he turned 16 and they had a policy of litting younger kids have the job as "dock boy" at Earnies....here on Gull lake. He said he made $200 and often more on good days.....in tips helping folks tie up their boats when they came for dinner. No pay....just tips. Usually worked about 6 hours. He said he wuuld have kept that job instead of the golf course job if they had let him. Pretty good tax free income for a young kid. 'Merica.
Edit: I just stopped at Menards and went thru the check out. I doubt that those check out clerks get more than minimum wage. Same at a supermarket. Does anyone tip them? I tip the kid that carts our grocieries and puts them in our car. The usually are suprised at tipping.....and have asked me "are you sure"? Like it's not done too often. I doubt those kids make over minimum wages.....and some of them work pretty hard.
The thing about tipping is....where does it end? ....or start?.....and I doubt anyone is claiming much of that tip income on their taxes. In OZ.....hardly anyone will work for a small landscape job without wanting CASH anymore. None of that is being taxed....and most of that handyman work pays pretty well.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 21, 2022 14:45:58 GMT -6
Fair point, and I think what we're seeing now is just the beginning. People aren't happy working at jobs where they feel underpaid, so they don't go to those jobs. I think what corporations will do is to automate many jobs rather than paying employees what they want to be paid. We're going to end up with a bunch of people who could have been working sitting at home and collecting "universal basic income" because machines are going to be doing the work. I don't know how much a Walmart personal shopper should make. $17 an hour to go shopping for other people seems like a lot of money, but since Walmart doesn't like giving people full time hours I imagine those people are lucky to make $25K a year...and not get any benefits from Walmart....and get their health insurance on the taxpayer's dime. I don't imagine it will be too much longer that humans will be doing that job. You already have this, look at the participation rate sense the Obama administration and it is clear people have to be getting some sort of payment otherwise how are they able to afford to live? My guess is there are programs that are covering a large portion of peoples costs. If all able-bodied people were in the workforce you would not have a shortage of people at many of these lower paying jobs. Things are changing that is for sure and it's not for the better. In regards to healthcare all you have to do is look at the spiraling cost of healthcare and its clear why all companies are running away from it. I have worked on many company P&L's and healthcare is one cost companies can do little to influence other than not hire FTE's. Healthcare costs have gone up at double digit percentages for decades while general CPI has been flat. The question is why? My guess is all the above leads to the same thing, a shortage of capital to afford to pay a decent wage to employees. Yep, and we'll only get more of it in the years to come. No kid at Papa Murphy's to tip, just a robot that assembles your pizza. As far as the spiraling cost of healthcare, yep again. Except, I'm not a fan of taxpayers picking up the tab instead of companies like Walmart.
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Post by badgerfowl on Sept 21, 2022 15:39:18 GMT -6
I talked with a 16 year old kid at the golf course the other day. He was helping put my clubs on the cart and take them off where you customarily give them a tip for their efforts. Sometimes they do a nice job and put your clubs in the rack....and I suppose if you are unable they will put them in your car if you ask them and tip approrpieately. This kid told me about his old job that he had to give up as he turned 16 and they had a policy of litting younger kids have the job as "dock boy" at Earnies....here on Gull lake. He said he made $200 and often more on good days.....in tips helping folks tie up their boats when they came for dinner. No pay....just tips. Usually worked about 6 hours. He said he wuuld have kept that job instead of the golf course job if they had let him. Pretty good tax free income for a young kid. 'Merica. Edit: I just stopped at Menards and went thru the check out. I doubt that those check out clerks get more than minimum wage. Same at a supermarket. Does anyone tip them? I tip the kid that carts our grocieries and puts them in our car. The usually are suprised at tipping.....and have asked me "are you sure"? Like it's not done too often. I doubt those kids make over minimum wages.....and some of them work pretty hard. The thing about tipping is....where does it end? ....or start?.....and I doubt anyone is claiming much of that tip income on their taxes. In OZ.....hardly anyone will work for a small landscape job without wanting CASH anymore. None of that is being taxed....and most of that handyman work pays pretty well. I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a minimum wage job these days. If people are making $15+/hr at McDonalds or Culver's, I'm guessing check out people are making more than minimum wage at Menards.
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Post by Freeborn on Sept 21, 2022 15:57:32 GMT -6
You already have this, look at the participation rate sense the Obama administration and it is clear people have to be getting some sort of payment otherwise how are they able to afford to live? My guess is there are programs that are covering a large portion of peoples costs. If all able-bodied people were in the workforce you would not have a shortage of people at many of these lower paying jobs. Things are changing that is for sure and it's not for the better. In regards to healthcare all you have to do is look at the spiraling cost of healthcare and its clear why all companies are running away from it. I have worked on many company P&L's and healthcare is one cost companies can do little to influence other than not hire FTE's. Healthcare costs have gone up at double digit percentages for decades while general CPI has been flat. The question is why? My guess is all the above leads to the same thing, a shortage of capital to afford to pay a decent wage to employees. Yep, and we'll only get more of it in the years to come. No kid at Papa Murphy's to tip, just a robot that assembles your pizza. As far as the spiraling cost of healthcare, yep again. Except, I'm not a fan of taxpayers picking up the tab instead of companies like Walmart. Companies don't pay for many of these expenses, they are eventually pass through via product costs to the consumer. Business do try and minimize these costs so they don't increase product costs therefore maintaining demand. The issue with healthcare and many things that have created enormous bubbles in our society is government intervention. Government is the price and service arbitrator between provider and customer. Basically you don't have an effective market like you have for typical goods. Customer demand feedback and price elasticity basically does not exist in the current system and instead of customers setting prices as well as mix of services demanded you have politician and lobbyist doing it. Most of us buy way more coverage than we need for services we would never use. Companies like Amazon and Walmart have made comments about getting into healthcare so they can try and improve it but I doubt they will as it is not part of their core- competency's. I see Amazon is getting into the prescription drug business, this could be for profit though? Healthcare is a mess, just look at companies like UHG (2021 they had 287.6 billion in revenue), they only administer plans (provide no direct healthcare services and are pure overhead) which under most cost improvement efforts would be eliminated but not under government administration. I wish I had answers but I don't, I just know U.S. Cost per patient is by far the highest in the world while we often rank low in many metrics against comparable wealthy countries. These costs are in our society and effect wages and if companies will hire employees. In my opinion we are way overpaying for what we get in healthcare and those dollars would be far better used paying a livable wage to workers.
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Post by chummer16 on Sept 21, 2022 16:03:30 GMT -6
Most of you guys know that I have helped guide for bears for the last 12 years. I can not tell you how many times hunters did not give a tip. It has gotten worse as the years go by. I always tip a person that works in an industry that their wage is dependant on tips. If a person works in an industry where the pay is based on getting tips than a person should be tipped based on how good the service being provided is. By not tipping at all you are telling the person their service sucked, when in reality a lot of times the service was acceptable or better. For you guys that are cheap asses that don't like to tip than stay home or better yet eliminate tips for wages and pay these workers a wage that isn't dependant on tips. I struggle with this one. I use a guy for a walleye charter every year and take clients. He is the owner operator so he gets all the money. I still tip him because I am expensing it. The problem is when I am on a personal trip I don’t want to tip because he is pricey already.
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Post by chummer16 on Sept 21, 2022 16:31:58 GMT -6
I talked with a 16 year old kid at the golf course the other day. He was helping put my clubs on the cart and take them off where you customarily give them a tip for their efforts. Sometimes they do a nice job and put your clubs in the rack....and I suppose if you are unable they will put them in your car if you ask them and tip approrpieately. This kid told me about his old job that he had to give up as he turned 16 and they had a policy of litting younger kids have the job as "dock boy" at Earnies....here on Gull lake. He said he made $200 and often more on good days.....in tips helping folks tie up their boats when they came for dinner. No pay....just tips. Usually worked about 6 hours. He said he wuuld have kept that job instead of the golf course job if they had let him. Pretty good tax free income for a young kid. 'Merica. Edit: I just stopped at Menards and went thru the check out. I doubt that those check out clerks get more than minimum wage. Same at a supermarket. Does anyone tip them? I tip the kid that carts our grocieries and puts them in our car. The usually are suprised at tipping.....and have asked me "are you sure"? Like it's not done too often. I doubt those kids make over minimum wages.....and some of them work pretty hard. The thing about tipping is....where does it end? ....or start?.....and I doubt anyone is claiming much of that tip income on their taxes. In OZ.....hardly anyone will work for a small landscape job without wanting CASH anymore. None of that is being taxed....and most of that handyman work pays pretty well. I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a minimum wage job these days. If people are making $15+/hr at McDonalds or Culver's, I'm guessing check out people are making more than minimum wage at Menards. My 16 year old is making 18/hr at five guys.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Sept 21, 2022 17:00:24 GMT -6
I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a minimum wage job these days. If people are making $15+/hr at McDonalds or Culver's, I'm guessing check out people are making more than minimum wage at Menards. My 16 year old is making 18/hr at five guys. If he works hard he should make that. Good for them.
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Post by Foggy on Sept 21, 2022 20:29:22 GMT -6
OPM. It's always the same. Almost everyone wants to have or use OPM (Other Peoples Money) to pave the way. That is OK to some extent.....we all need some basic things. But expecting OPM to pay your way in life is not going to end well.....long term.
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Post by Tooln on Sept 22, 2022 6:08:27 GMT -6
Companies don't pay for many of these expenses, they are eventually pass through via product costs to the consumer. Business do try and minimize these costs so they don't increase product costs therefore maintaining demand. The issue with healthcare and many things that have created enormous bubbles in our society is government intervention. Government is the price and service arbitrator between provider and customer. Basically you don't have an effective market like you have for typical goods. Customer demand feedback and price elasticity basically does not exist in the current system and instead of customers setting prices as well as mix of services demanded you have politician and lobbyist doing it. Most of us buy way more coverage than we need for services we would never use. Companies like Amazon and Walmart have made comments about getting into healthcare so they can try and improve it but I doubt they will as it is not part of their core- competency's. I see Amazon is getting into the prescription drug business, this could be for profit though? Healthcare is a mess, just look at companies like UHG (2021 they had 287.6 billion in revenue), they only administer plans (provide no direct healthcare services and are pure overhead) which under most cost improvement efforts would be eliminated but not under government administration. I wish I had answers but I don't, I just know U.S. Cost per patient is by far the highest in the world while we often rank low in many metrics against comparable wealthy countries. These costs are in our society and effect wages and if companies will hire employees. In my opinion we are way overpaying for what we get in healthcare and those dollars would be far better used paying a livable wage to workers. Healthcare should be like taxes, paid directly by the individual, and not like they currently usually are where the individual doesn't directly feel the pain of paying the bill. If individuals had to pay both directly out of their pocket it would wake them up to the true costs. Instead we have a bunch of people/sheep that feel like they are getting health care for free and they have won the lottery when they get some of their own tax money back in a return. Health care cost SUCK. Insurance companies are making $$$$$ that are outrageous, for both Dr & patient. When I was young looking for a job Health insurance was the largest benefit I looked for. I'd work for less $$ if there was good health care. Many young folks now look for easy work and don't consider the bennies.
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Post by smsmith on Sept 22, 2022 6:21:50 GMT -6
Let's face it, at least part of why health care costs suck is that health care companies are trying to make a lot of money for stock holders. Horror stories are common with a person paying their premiums for decades, then being denied treatment...because that treatment is expensive and cuts into the bottom line. Meanwhile insurance company bigwigs are "earning" ridiculous bonuses.
I like making money off my investments as much as the next guy, but I have always struggled with the idea of making money off of sick people.
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