Wild Crabs versus Wild Apples discussion

I see more wild crabs along the River banks where soils are better and less as the rivers enter the Anoka sand plain area. Of course, most of the ground in the sand plain is intensive agriculture. Our pH’s do tend to be low as compared to Stu’s area to the west.

I also see less crabs overall as I go north into the central part of the state.

I don't know Barron or Rusk Co. WI native soil ph. It seems that generally the further east you go, the lower the ph (there are exceptions).

My beliefs on why more apples than crabs in certain areas:

1. more humus/OM in the soil, more apples than crabs. Soil ph likely plays a role here too. I think they tend to go hand in hand. Light, sandy soils by definition have low OM. They also tend to be lower in ph than heavier soils (probably at least partly due to the lack of OM somehow, I'm no soil scientist)

2. historic land use is likely a key factor. MN has many more acres of ground that are/historically were grazed by cattle and sheep than does WI. Grazing animals would favor "sweeter" tasting apple wood over more bitter tasting crabs. Throw in differences of the folks who settled in different areas here too. WI had lots of Swiss settlers, that's at least one reason for the heavy presence of cheese makers there. Maybe those different settlers had different ideas on the value of apples. More apples planted around homesteads for more decades leads to more wild apples. Maybe the WI settlers were more interested in drinking lots of sweet cider....or maybe they were more interested in drinking lots of hard cider/apple jack


edit...as far as crabs tolerating wetter soil than apples.  Maybe.  Not all crabs can survive in wet soil.  Not all apples die in wet soil.  My guess is that the baccata crab heritage leads to some seedlings being able to tolerate wetter soil.  Given the huge number of Red Splendor seedlings that have been planted in MN, I'd guess those genes play a huge role in many wild crabs here.

further edit...lack of crabs/apples as you go north in MN - I've noticed that too, but mainly as you go north in the eastern part of the state.  I haven't gone all the way to the Manitoba border in the northwest, but I'd guess there are more apples/crabs in that part of the state.  The soil in the NW is heavier than in the NE.  Yes, NE MN gets a bit colder than NW MN.  Neither are warm, hospitable places in the winter.  I don't believe a few degree difference plays that large of a role.  As I posted this summer, I was seeing mature apples and crabs damn near all the way to I Falls.  When I used to go to Canada, I saw apples and crabs all the way to Thunder Bay.  

This would probably be a livelier and more informative discussion on H-T.  I'd be interested to read what other folks think.

edit...my observations of wild trees in Maine were that most were likely apples, not crabs.  Obviously, there have been white folks raising apples a lot longer back east than here (or further west).  Maine doesn't have awesome soil by any means.  Lots of sand and gravel is what I saw.  Very little agriculture.  Red clover fields were about all I saw that would have been considered ag.  I believe the native soil ph there is quite low - right around 5 or so.  Not sure what that means in regards to what we see around here, but it was interesting to me.

Not as lively over there as I thought it may be.

I’m not sure who settled rusk county, but they sure liked apples. We made a loop through the neighborhood and turned around at a driveway where a sign said there was a post office there from about 1910-1930. It looked like a good grouse area- a brushy 1/2 acre area surrounded by big woods. No sign of any buildings or human traces other than the historical sign marker on the sign of the road. Sure enough, there were a couple giant apple trees (no fruit hanging, so hard to tell what variety) on that old abandoned post office property.

Pretty cool to see them still hanging on despite no care for decades.

I saw another old apple tree holding fruit on my neighbor’s property near the highway. There was also a patch of plum trees there, so I’m guessing that was an old home site decades ago. Wild plums are not extremely common up there, but they tend to be found near old homesteads along with apples.

Any commercial orchards around that area?  I've wondered if some areas with more wild apples had/have large orchards around.  I know over by wife's old place (Opole area) there is an old private orchard of around 40 acres.  It is in the middle of a section and you'd never know it was there if you didn't know the history of the area.  Probably not coincidentally, there are a few wild ditch apples in that area.