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Post by benmnwi on Jan 23, 2024 13:42:52 GMT -6
I did a bunch of research on ponds several years ago when I was trying to get one built on my WI place. There were USFWS dollars available for certain types of pond projects and they were very helpful. The USFWS approved my plan, but it needed a final approval from the WI DNR before they could start moving dirt. It didn't end up getting approved by the DNR though since it was a wetland area, but I did learn a lot from the USFWS technician.
If you have a decent drainage area and some elevation change, the biggest bang for your buck is to build a dam since you have to move the least amount of dirt. If you start from scratch on flat ground you have to move much more dirt, so the price per acre of pond is much higher.
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Post by Bob on Jan 23, 2024 13:46:23 GMT -6
I’m just trying to figure out what it’s gonna cost to move all the dirt. So far it’s way higher than I expected. Stable water may be down 8’. Is it dry enough to use a bulldozer? My new place was bone dry, so my bulldozer guy was able to dig about 1/3 acre pond down to 8 feet in the middle in one day of work. Roughly $1500 for that. I had that work done a month ago since I was worried a wet spring could make digging that way impossible. I think it would cost a little more if you had to use an excavator to dig out the hole and a bulldozer to move the dirt away from the pond. How big of a pond are you looking to make? The bigger the better if you ask me. The water level is the big concern. Edge to edge, all I want is a quarter acre. But I may have to get the bottom down to 14 or 16 feet to maintain steady water in a drought like we've had the last three years. I'd love to have the whole thing be gently sloping so it could mowed and fished from anywhere. To get that deep and keep that slope, we're talking major yards of dirt. To answer your question, it's wide open to do with a dozer. All the dirt could be pushed and mounded up right next to the pond. The county is ok with it, and that's what I want. I want it as a visual barrier to the road, and I want it high enough I can put a shooting tower up there. A big part of the problem is both available dirt guys don't have enough experience with ponds or math to get anywhere close to a good estimate on how long it would take to dig that hole.
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Post by Bob on Jan 23, 2024 13:55:42 GMT -6
I did a bunch of research on ponds several years ago when I was trying to get one built on my WI place. There were USFWS dollars available for certain types of pond projects and they were very helpful. The USFWS approved my plan, but it needed a final approval from the WI DNR before they could start moving dirt. It didn't end up getting approved by the DNR though since it was a wetland area, but I did learn a lot from the USFWS technician. If you have a decent drainage area and some elevation change, the biggest bang for your buck is to build a dam since you have to move the least amount of dirt. If you start from scratch on flat ground you have to move much more dirt, so the price per acre of pond is much higher. I'm as flat as hammered shit on my place. I have 2' of elevation change from corner to corner. There are pockets that sit about a foot lower, and it can be observed by vegetation changes, and where ponding occurred in the wet years of 2016-2019. I could probably gather and channel water from 10 acres for this pond. But if it never comes as snow or rain, then I've just got a pit. Three years of dry really has me gun shy about dropping $20k on a hole that could very well never have water. Before 2020, I couldn't even drive on my property before July 15th. It was almost impossible to ever do dirt work because it always rained, and when it did, I'd get 5-8" every week it seemed. I'll never forget the year I had foot tall soybeans standing in 8" of water in my foot plots in September.
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Post by benmnwi on Jan 23, 2024 13:58:15 GMT -6
1 day of bulldozer time to go from the before you after pics here. $1500 give or take.
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Post by benmnwi on Jan 23, 2024 14:05:55 GMT -6
Bulldozer work goes pretty fast for projects like this where they can just move the dirt to an immediately adjacent area. I had the center dug down to 8'+ and moved the dirt to the edge of the former pond site. It slowly filled in with silt over the last 40 years and the pond was originally likely 2/3 acre and now it should be around 1/3-1/2 acre give or take. I wanted a 10 yard wide strip of high ground on the pond edge to plant some clover for a solid September bow spot, so that made a great spot to put the dug out dirt. I will say that dirt was great looking - lots of top soil from my property and neighboring properties ended up in this pond, so I have high hopes for my clover strip.
You really need to be there when the bulldozer guy is working so they don't get creative and do something goofy. My guy is really good, but I've learned I need to be clear with my instructions. I've also learned that he can spend a lot of time fine tuning things at the end when they are more than good enough for me. That can make a 1 day project turn into a 3 day project even though things were fine after day 1. On this project I told him I have a day to work on this and a couple other things and I want to dig this as deep as possible in that time. I'm very happy with how it turned out.
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Post by Bob on Jan 23, 2024 14:14:03 GMT -6
First solid estimate I got on the concept was $20,000. $200/hr for the hoe, $200/hr for the dozer, and 5 ten hour days to do it. I wonder if maybe I should expand my search area some? If it's 5-10 days just with a dozer, you'd think that'd be worth driving 30-40 miles from home base. Should beat the hell out of 1 and 2 day projects and then the semi has to come move equipment again.
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Post by Sandbur on Jan 23, 2024 14:15:28 GMT -6
Thirty years ago, I had two ponds dug with a cat. The spill from one is planted to some apple trees and also is a finger of a foodplot. The other pond has spill that is covered with tag alders plus a few planted spruce. It is a bedding spot. These ponds were not dug as ovals.
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Post by Sandbur on Jan 23, 2024 14:20:25 GMT -6
Thirty years ago, I had two ponds dug with a cat. The spill from one is planted to some apple trees and also is a finger of a foodplot. The other pond has spill that is covered with tag alders plus a few planted spruce. It is a bedding spot. These ponds were not dug as ovals. I just remembered that there is a third pond. One of the first two ponds is C shaped and the other is S shaped. I can’t find a good aerial picture right now.
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Post by benmnwi on Jan 23, 2024 14:30:27 GMT -6
First solid estimate I got on the concept was $20,000. $200/hr for the hoe, $200/hr for the dozer, and 5 ten hour days to do it. I wonder if maybe I should expand my search area some? If it's 5-10 days just with a dozer, you'd think that'd be worth driving 30-40 miles from home base. Should beat the hell out of 1 and 2 day projects and then the semi has to come move equipment again. If you were looking for a 15' deep pond you would need to move a lot of dirt, but $20k sure seems high to me after watching him dig out my pond in a day. If your ground is dry, I don't really know why you would need the excavator in addition to the bulldozer. I paid $160/hr for a D4 (at least I think that's what it was) and then there was a $300 transport fee to get it to and from the site. My bulldozer guy has a bigger bulldozer that he said could have completed the work much faster, but there was no reasonable way to get the bigger bulldozer back to this location. I've learned that if you ask a bulldozer guy for a firm quote to do something, it always ends up high and somehow it always takes up all the time. But if you tell them I have this much $$$ ready to go and I want you to dig as fast as you can as deep as possible, things get done for a much better price.
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Post by badgerfowl on Jan 23, 2024 14:44:28 GMT -6
First solid estimate I got on the concept was $20,000. $200/hr for the hoe, $200/hr for the dozer, and 5 ten hour days to do it. I wonder if maybe I should expand my search area some? If it's 5-10 days just with a dozer, you'd think that'd be worth driving 30-40 miles from home base. Should beat the hell out of 1 and 2 day projects and then the semi has to come move equipment again. If you were looking for a 15' deep pond you would need to move a lot of dirt, but $20k sure seems high to me after watching him dig out my pond in a day. If your ground is dry, I don't really know why you would need the excavator in addition to the bulldozer. I paid $160/hr for a D4 (at least I think that's what it was) and then there was a $300 transport fee to get it to and from the site. My bulldozer guy has a bigger bulldozer that he said could have completed the work much faster, but there was no reasonable way to get the bigger bulldozer back to this location. I've learned that if you ask a bulldozer guy for a firm quote to do something, it always ends up high and somehow it always takes up all the time. But if you tell them I have this much $$$ ready to go and I want you to dig as fast as you can as deep as possible, things get done for a much better price. For the amount of yards he'll need to move, that seems reasonable to me. When we dig waste storage ponds, its usually an excavator and dozer doing the work. Sometimes more than one of each, depending on size.
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Post by nhmountains on Jan 28, 2024 17:46:44 GMT -6
First solid estimate I got on the concept was $20,000. $200/hr for the hoe, $200/hr for the dozer, and 5 ten hour days to do it. I wonder if maybe I should expand my search area some? If it's 5-10 days just with a dozer, you'd think that'd be worth driving 30-40 miles from home base. Should beat the hell out of 1 and 2 day projects and then the semi has to come move equipment again. Bob, Is that 2 operators running in tandem or one guy running them when he needs to? That big excavator my loggers had could definitely move a mound of dirt pretty quickly. That bucket was huge.
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Post by badgerfowl on Jan 29, 2024 8:55:09 GMT -6
First solid estimate I got on the concept was $20,000. $200/hr for the hoe, $200/hr for the dozer, and 5 ten hour days to do it. I wonder if maybe I should expand my search area some? If it's 5-10 days just with a dozer, you'd think that'd be worth driving 30-40 miles from home base. Should beat the hell out of 1 and 2 day projects and then the semi has to come move equipment again. Bob, Is that 2 operators running in tandem or one guy running them when he needs to? That big excavator my loggers had could definitely move a mound of dirt pretty quickly. That bucket was huge. The job would go quicker in tandem. One guy scoops, the other guy pushes. You can get some pretty big buckets these days.
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Post by benmnwi on Feb 22, 2024 14:45:14 GMT -6
My sodbuster request to turn a couple acres of grass strip into tillable land I can rent out is starting to get irritating. I filled out the sodbuster paperwork on December 7th and still haven't received any feedback and today my local NRCS rep says she doesn't know how long it will take to get a reply. She just said that there is a long list and it goes on a first come, first serve basis. She wouldn't give me the name of anyone I can call directly to see what the hell is taking so long either. I just want to pick a renter from my cropland, so it would be nice to know whether or not I can include these few acres or not. I guess it takes months to answer that question.
Nobody will ever accuse the government of being fast or efficient, but this is getting ridiculous.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Feb 22, 2024 19:22:51 GMT -6
My sodbuster request to turn a couple acres of grass strip into tillable land I can rent out is starting to get irritating. I filled out the sodbuster paperwork on December 7th and still haven't received any feedback and today my local NRCS rep says she doesn't know how long it will take to get a reply. She just said that there is a long list and it goes on a first come, first serve basis. She wouldn't give me the name of anyone I can call directly to see what the hell is taking so long either. I just want to pick a renter from my cropland, so it would be nice to know whether or not I can include these few acres or not. I guess it takes months to answer that question. Nobody will ever accuse the government of being fast or efficient, but this is getting ridiculous. Grass ? Is it flat or hilly ? I’ve never asked when I tilled it up.
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Post by benmnwi on Feb 22, 2024 22:06:35 GMT -6
My sodbuster request to turn a couple acres of grass strip into tillable land I can rent out is starting to get irritating. I filled out the sodbuster paperwork on December 7th and still haven't received any feedback and today my local NRCS rep says she doesn't know how long it will take to get a reply. She just said that there is a long list and it goes on a first come, first serve basis. She wouldn't give me the name of anyone I can call directly to see what the hell is taking so long either. I just want to pick a renter from my cropland, so it would be nice to know whether or not I can include these few acres or not. I guess it takes months to answer that question. Nobody will ever accuse the government of being fast or efficient, but this is getting ridiculous. Grass ? Is it flat or hilly ? I’ve never asked when I tilled it up. Yes, it is grassy and sloped. The sodbuster approvals on my home place were always quick, but for some reason this is not. It should be pretty easy since this isn’t a wetland and I have an old 1950 aerial photo showing this area planted to crops. I think if you dig up certain types of wetlands or grasslands without approval you are ineligible for certain programs. I don’t know if crp is one, but I don’t want to lose my ability to apply for that or my potential future ponds through nrcs. I could probably use more cover more than food, so keeping it in grass may not be a bad thing.
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