gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Jan 9, 2024 5:42:32 GMT -6
I had a brain glitch - Toronto is Jefferson, not Jackson. The Ottawa place has to be pretty darn close to you. This place had some hammer deer on it, but was a clearcut turned jungle amongst WNF.
Befriended a guy from the Buckeye Big Buck Club and get the run down.....there were some dandies taken around the county. Last year I had a couple of 4 yo and one 5 all around the 150" mark. Had two randoms that were older than 3 this yr, with a number of twos and a couple of 3yos, everything P&Y and lesser. I am giving this layout one more go but fear the lack of ag and my local neighborhood are not going to allow me to find what I am after.
Didnt know that drought was a problem two years ago as well. What are you planting in your plots? DO you run feeders? Water holes?
I tried the RWS Mineral with essential oils that are supposed to help with insects and therefore EHD. This year will try some other stuff and add garlic and probiotics. It may be snake oil but rather try.
Would love to chat with you more on all this Ohio experience....and for the non-Ohians, please forgive the tangent
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Post by Reagan on Jan 9, 2024 6:58:24 GMT -6
Dude. I’ve been reading stuff about the great white north for years with these guys. And they are great guys by the way. There is no reason to apologize for an Ohio conversation. It’s long overdue
I’m close to Lawrence county but the only Ottawa I know is in NW Ohio above Lima.
I’m about a mature buck more than score. If I kill a 4 year old that is barely P&Y I’d be thrilled. But I understand people have different goals. If you had that many bucks around, I’d stick with it a few years. Sometimes it takes a while to figure a place out. Then longer to make improvements on it. Some of the largest bucks I’ve ever known came out of big woods low agg areas. It can be done.
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Post by Reagan on Jan 9, 2024 7:09:04 GMT -6
I have a concrete cattle tank for a water hole.
I don’t run feeders but do occasionally throw down corn to kill a late season deer.
I have a weedy perennial clover plot that has been a savior the last 2 drought years. Another plot has been tough to establish with fall plantings. If the clover doesn’t kick in this spring I may try spring planted clover just so I can enjoy some spring rain to get it going.
I’ve been grafting persimmon , pears and some Wild crabs for about 3 years and I started an orchard last year. I hope to have a ton of soft mast in the future.
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Jan 9, 2024 17:44:05 GMT -6
I just checked the pin- it was near Buckthorn. I should go back and see what CN city it is I was wrong on this time. Haha.
Would much prefer higher scoring older deer but with you on if he's 5 he should be a hit lister. I'm 46 and have become real impatient with deer a bunch of states and eating a bunch of tags. Not itchy finger impatient but miffed all of my places and habitat efforts havent put a dandy up for at least chasing (and I am okay with them winning and my not getting the kill....they just need to be there)
What have you seen work in low ag areas?
How big is the tank and are you filling it yourself?
Do you mow or spray your clover? Anything else get added to it at times (chicory early, cereals or turnips late)?
Finally took the plunge and bought some good trees vs the state sale stuff. Have crabs, apples, pears and some nuts coming. I have ton of persimmon on my place...but didn't really check or note any dropping. The same with pawpaw. A few OH buddies swear soft mast is the biggest draw to southern ohio deer. Guess time will tell but you seem to be on that train.
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Post by Reagan on Jan 10, 2024 6:20:34 GMT -6
Buckthorn is close. It is straight south of Oak Hill. I am straight east of oak hill.
What has worked in low agg areas is the same thing I’ve done in the agg area I’m in now. I lowered my expectations. I am not bothered when I don’t kill a buck. I’m not bothered if the biggest is a 145”.
I once killed a 4 year old that scores 125. That’s a win for me and I’m 100% ok with it and zero disappointed. I know 2 guys that have killed a lot of big bucks in and out of agg areas. They do what I can’t. They hunt a lot more. They live in the area and probably spend 3-4 times more hours in the stand than I do. That should improve for me next year with my youngest graduating.
The tank is a cattle tank. It is fed by a spring so I don’t have to do anything.
I mow my clover. I sprayed Cleth on it once a year or 2 ago. I throw down brassica and rye each year, mow it and walk away. I’m into less work and inputs. This year I mowed my old rye and didn’t put any down. I’m going to see how much volunteer rye comes up. There is a cat who used to hang here a lot. I’ve been influenced by his idea of no fertilizer and lots of seed to drown out competition.
I like late dropping persimmons. I have wild ones in the woods and I’ve grafted a lot that are going in areas that used to be mowed but are now growing up. I’ll have a crazy supply of persimmons some day.
Pawpaw are great but they rarely make it to bow season. Most fall and disappear in early September.
I look forward to increased apple production some day. I’ve set things up so a deer has to walk thru my clover plot past me to get to the orchard. I’d like to have a ton of apples instead of spreading a ton of corn.
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Jan 11, 2024 5:46:15 GMT -6
It was Waterloo- I was right on another Canadian city. For what it is worth, and off the top of my head, I walked 12-15 properties, had 8 purchase attempts and called about dozens of properties. I basically bought this one (BUckthorn-Waterloo) over the phone contingent on a walk and knew in 5 minutes of being there it was a no-go. I see it has since sold. This place showed me why to never buy private surrounded by public.
I killed a 4yo here in NY this yr. Not my norm, its been quite a while...but he didnt grow an inch from three and I have been struggling with not enjoying hunting and he was part of an exciting go. If theyre old and with mass...its easier. The ones that some folks would argue are two yet you have 11yrs of history with are my struggle, and it isnt because of someone-elses age opinion. 145" is a great buck anywhere. I never want to see three yos of that size during pre-rut as theyre easy to make mistakes on.
I like your clover approach a bunch. I dont have a bush hog at my place but need to figure that out. Had some foxtail come in late july last year. I mow and Cleth here. I am wondering how youre volunteer rye will do. Otherr than clover my volunteer success hasnt been good.
SO if you graft a female scion on a male tree theyll fruit? Again, I have tons of them but didnt note fruit. Looking forward to trying one and a paw paw. Have been told a few times not to eat a persimmon that isnt ripe.
Soft mast is all the rage in the deer habitat/layout game at the moment. My folks have a little pear and apple (w some cherries, mulberries, current, etc) here in wNY. It gets deer but i see plots pulling more/harder. Nonetheless, I spent a bunch on trees for this Ohio place. Excited and nervous
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Post by Reagan on Jan 11, 2024 6:27:20 GMT -6
I’m not sure soft mass will ever make a difference in hunting. I’m trying to make some for me and the wildlife. I have hundreds of persimmon saplings that I started grafting to female about 3 years ago. None have fruited yet but I think they will this year. I found about 6-8 saplings this year with fruit that I had not grafted. The area they grow in was last bush hogged in 2017 so they are getting some age on them.
I have a Kubota lawn tractor to mow my yard and my plots. I’d like it to cut a little taller on my plots but I got what I got to work with.
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Post by Reagan on Jan 11, 2024 6:30:38 GMT -6
The difficulty of finding the right piece is hard. I’d stick with yours for a few years before I gave up and tried another.
I know I could have found a better bow hunting spot but I have a cabin and my place is as much about family time as deer killing. Previous owner killed some slobs during gun season but I rarely hunt then. Their success was driven by the neighbors pushing deer. That’s not my thing.
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Post by Reagan on Jan 11, 2024 6:31:46 GMT -6
Spend some time in the fruit forum here. That what I did to learn grafting. It’s not that hard.
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Jan 11, 2024 20:04:46 GMT -6
Id like to learn graft simply as my grandfather was into it...and that was a memory i have. More persimmons never hurt either, right? Have heard they really suck deer in. I ordered some late droppers from Blue Hill. Have some late crabs and pears too. My logic was to keep or attract displaced deer. Who knows if that will work.
Good new to hear that grafting isnt too hard. Im a slow learner but do great with things once i get them.
As of now what is keeping me here is not finding the "must have" piece. The market is lackluster or outerspace priced. I think youre in a great area. The seller of that place i looked at had pics of 115" shed they had found. N other half, pics, etc....but he had multiple booner pics from the place they were selling. That's why i was so anxious...but seeing the place I felt very different. My current place screams big deer to me....and has gone the other way. Maybe i need the recalibration.
We dont have a place on ours yet. Funds are too tight. I know that draws away from it. It is also why I am anxious for deer as the commitment will be all the more once a place is there.
Asked about the mower to figure out what I need and what I can do. A buddy told me a zero turn will do far more for plot and trail clearing than one would think...but obviously the right move would be a tractor and brush hog,
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Post by Reagan on Jan 12, 2024 5:37:05 GMT -6
My dad had a big yard and this was his mower. He downsized 6 months offer I bought my current place so I got his “tractor”. It can pull my atv disk and I raise the deck at its highest and it will mow a plot. It’s 4x4. I think a zero turn would be a lessor machine but I’ve never used one before.
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Jan 26, 2024 5:44:45 GMT -6
Figured I would come back to this ones as the lousy weather days continue to haunt me.
Must have- great plots. Going to run the LC Mix in the two larger plots, frost seeding some more clover and chicory into what I have in about a month, then adding some peas and oats in spring, some light brassica mid summer and WR in September. Between the chit soil, no other food around and this being a proven mix....as long as it actually rains in Ohio I should be in a great place.
Snagged an ATV and ATV flail mower. A place to store it is next on the list. Frost proof yard tap and herbicide fogger (to complement the sprayers I already have) are on deck.
Nothing trumps the two big plots H have now growing great. It is imperative. I do keep thinking about connecting t my two larger plots with deer trails through the thick early successional (read as "invasive hell") stuff. The plan is to keep the trails open enough, but closed enough, to encourage travel in a manner where the deer will feel safe using them, and I can try to nudge them where I could use them. Midpoint on both/each trail I would clear a 1/10-3/10ac.
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Post by Sandbur on Jan 26, 2024 7:09:03 GMT -6
Figured I would come back to this ones as the lousy weather days continue to haunt me. Must have- great plots. Going to run the LC Mix in the two larger plots, frost seeding some more clover and chicory into what I have in about a month, then adding some peas and oats in spring, some light brassica mid summer and WR in September. Between the chit soil, no other food around and this being a proven mix....as long as it actually rains in Ohio I should be in a great place. Snagged an ATV and ATV flail mower. A place to store it is next on the list. Frost proof yard tap and herbicide fogger (to complement the sprayers I already have) are on deck. Nothing trumps the two big plots H have now growing great. It is imperative. I do keep thinking about connecting t my two larger plots with deer trails through the thick early successional (read as "invasive hell") stuff. The plan is to keep the trails open enough, but closed enough, to encourage travel in a manner where the deer will feel safe using them, and I can try to nudge them where I could use them. Midpoint on both/each trail I would clear a 1/10-3/10ac. . I like to make deer trails through thick cover narrower than most commonly do now. Based on some books from decades ago, just make them wide and tall enough for a man to walk through. That tends to keep trespassers and 4 wheelers off of them. I have also dropped trees for barricades. I have found that I can alter travel routes of does and fawns but can not alter mature buck routes by very much. Maybe just enough to keep them upwind of specific stands. Young bucks follow the doe trails. When making trails, don’t create traps for predators to catch deer. Hard to explain, but it would depend on predators around. I have some coyotes and occasional wolves that don’t seem to hang around.
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Feb 14, 2024 6:39:13 GMT -6
. I like to make deer trails through thick cover narrower than most commonly do now. Based on some books from decades ago, just make them wide and tall enough for a man to walk through. That tends to keep trespassers and 4 wheelers off of them. I have also dropped trees for barricades. I have found that I can alter travel routes of does and fawns but can not alter mature buck routes by very much. Maybe just enough to keep them upwind of specific stands. Young bucks follow the doe trails. When making trails, don’t create traps for predators to catch deer. Hard to explain, but it would depend on predators around. I have some coyotes and occasional wolves that don’t seem to hang around. Thank you for your post and insight Sandbur. Super curious as to the books- I am a deer book nerd extraordinaire. The small/narrow (or dead-ended with a dropped tree) approach is solid. Makes great sense. Do you tend to keep them straight, winding or utilizing a specific path logic? Interesting on the buck travel point. Also makes sense and i have personally found them trying to be perpendicular to doe travel and assumed it was for interdigital "tabs" on who is where and doing wat from the female portion of the residents. Do you build your doe travel a certain way for buck travel to then react and go another predictable way? So avoid areas where they could be trapped, right? Lots of coyotes and bobcats here.
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Post by Sandbur on Feb 14, 2024 9:37:17 GMT -6
. I like to make deer trails through thick cover narrower than most commonly do now. Based on some books from decades ago, just make them wide and tall enough for a man to walk through. That tends to keep trespassers and 4 wheelers off of them. I have also dropped trees for barricades. I have found that I can alter travel routes of does and fawns but can not alter mature buck routes by very much. Maybe just enough to keep them upwind of specific stands. Young bucks follow the doe trails. When making trails, don’t create traps for predators to catch deer. Hard to explain, but it would depend on predators around. I have some coyotes and occasional wolves that don’t seem to hang around. Thank you for your post and insight Sandbur. Super curious as to the books- I am a deer book nerd extraordinaire. The small/narrow (or dead-ended with a dropped tree) approach is solid. Makes great sense. Do you tend to keep them straight, winding or utilizing a specific path logic? Interesting on the buck travel point. Also makes sense and i have personally found them trying to be perpendicular to doe travel and assumed it was for interdigital "tabs" on who is where and doing wat from the female portion of the residents. Do you build your doe travel a certain way for buck travel to then react and go another predictable way? So avoid areas where they could be trapped, right? Lots of coyotes and bobcats here. . I am surrounded by heavy ag so the results may be different than yours. I made the deer trails about 50 yards inside of the woods from the field edge. Since living here about 30 plus years, I have found mature bucks, during the rut, travel outside and downwind of those trails. There are two places that seem to have all bucks and does seem to move through together. End of a point and a funnel that I strengthened. Dr Ken Nordberg wrote those books. Maybe Norberg, from Minnesota. He hunted from the ground on stools after using stands previously. He hunted public ground and clipped out trails.
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