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Post by smsmith on Aug 1, 2024 6:42:15 GMT -6
Rutabaga are long season brassicas, I think they need 100 days or more. I've tried them a few times in the past and had the same issue Wade ^^^ mentioned.
FWIW..the forage collards take off much faster than rutabaga (or swedes).
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Post by smsmith on Aug 1, 2024 6:50:15 GMT -6
We decided to end the full season collard experiment. I got them too thick and they never really took off on drier sections of the plot. I think that the 5-8 does and fawns that are out there multiple times a day also kept them from amounting to much. I'd try spring planting collards again, but I think I'd plan on many apps of milorganite. At any rate, I sprayed the plot with gly/ams/surfactant yesterday. Spread turnips and radishes today, then cultipacked. I think the neighbor will mow weeds this weekend. Most of the plot was pretty weed free, but there is some tall ragweed in spots. I'm hoping mowing does a better job terminating ragweed than gly has been doing this year. If we could catch .5 of rain, I'd think there should be good germination. Maybe deer will like turnip greens less than collards... I should try the full season collard again because I haven’t had as much luck as others on that one I’ve been mixing it with some other brassica blends and even some clover blends, but it just doesn’t seem to survive. But I’m always left wondering if it is preferred so much that the deer browse it down to nothing. I've been trying to figure out why the collards didn't do better than they did. As I was spraying them, and then seeding over them later I looked pretty closely at how many were browsed. I'd say 95% or more showed recent browsing. I think doe groups got on them shortly after germination. Then they taught the fawns that collards are good chow.
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Post by Sandbur on Aug 1, 2024 7:46:34 GMT -6
Rutabaga are long season brassicas, I think they need 100 days or more. I've tried them a few times in the past and had the same issue Wade ^^^ mentioned. FWIW..the forage collards take off much faster than rutabaga (or swedes). The few rutabagas I have tried had weed issues as well.
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Post by benmnwi on Aug 1, 2024 10:34:29 GMT -6
I planted some full season kale a few years ago and I was not impressed. It grew fine, but it wasn't leafy enough to block the sun and the weeds were thick. It grew 6' tall, so you couldn't shoot through it and then it died and turned brown and was worthless for late season food.
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Post by nitro27 on Aug 1, 2024 11:48:47 GMT -6
This one was on my sons plot this morning.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Aug 4, 2024 19:04:35 GMT -6
I spread some brassicas/rye into the beans today. You couldn’t have asked for a better year for beans on sandy soil!
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Post by wiscbooners89 on Aug 5, 2024 5:35:21 GMT -6
I put down a couple pounds of radish seed in a bean plot that was looking sparse due to only being 1/3 of an acre. I'm waiting for the beans to turn yellow before I spread brassicas in the rest of the bigger bean fields. Beans look phenomenal with all the rain we've had.
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Post by smsmith on Aug 7, 2024 10:46:19 GMT -6
Spread a few bags of 27-13-14 on my crick plot, and threw some more radish and clover seed down on bare spots.
About kicked my ass. I'm on day two of a summer "cold" and it sucks
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Post by Foggy on Aug 7, 2024 10:59:52 GMT -6
I just posted the below over at a different site where I have been posting more these days. Several others there use a drill and are doing more things the way I am attempting to do things.....so I spend more time at that site these days. Stu was very influential in my going to a drill a few years ago......and still is a "go-to guy" for sound advice on so many topics....as are others.
Anyway.....thought I would post this as it gives some background on what I been doing. (Seems there is always another curve ball that Mother Nature throws at you).
Crowd Them Out! Dealing with Weeds.
I was just was thinking on weed problems I have had.....and continue to have at times. Some background to get on the same page....
When I got started into no-till and regenerative ag (4 years ago).....My weed problem that got my attention was pigweed. I was planting corn and soybeans with my JD71 two row planter via lots of tillage and fertilizer. I was first using RR beans and then spraying weeds with glyphosate and later went to liberty link beans and Interline herbicide. I also had about 1/2 my plots in clovers.....and some winter rye cover crop. Pigweed finally became a huge issue to me......and it was growing in the open spaces between the rows. I spent allot of time trying to control the weeds and grow the crops in rows.
It finally dawned on me that the open rows were creating the space for the weeds to grow and finally consider going the no-till route. Duh! (also, enter an affordable drill "Tar River" to the marketplace). I had allot of time on my hands due to my wife going thru some surgeries and spending allot of time at the hospital, etc. As a diversion I started reading all I could and got some good feedback from others on forums and YouTube.......and I remember the term "Crowd The Weeds Out". And started to consider the drill and the regenerative ag. SD and Catscratch and some others were very helpful to me early on.....as were some members at another site.
That summer I was unable to take care of my plots (due to wife's hospital events) and we were in a huge drought (somewhat typical in my sandy land). My plots turned into a disaster and I knew I needed to start over. Had those events not happened.....I may still be doing the same old routine....who knows(?). I watched all the video's I could, and read some books on regenerative ag (thanks CAT!). Finally saw the light. I was able to purchase a new Saya 505 drill and figured out what seeds to drill in fall. I nuked (glyphosate and 24D) and prepared 100% of my food plots at the time...about 8 acres total, and another 2 acres of land "under development" too.
Crowd 'em out was my mantra. I planted 2 bu of rye / acre along with red clover, Alice white clover, peas, turnips, DER, GHR, and more. If I get my intitial seed sheets out.....I was putting down about 134 lbs of seeds / acre and quite a combination. Fortunately, just when I got this done it started raining.....and we had good rains throughout the fall. I had beautiful stands of those crops I planted and into spring the clover and rye came back in spades. Major weed problems seemed to vanish. I still spot sprayed some bull thistles and was taking down mullein and pulled a little remaining pigweed. I started to take note on the varieties of "weeds" that came about.
I was into a rinse and repeat of the rye and clover combo after trying a "summer release" idea that didn't work for me......as we have too short of a growing season here in USDA zone 3. So,I got to my fourth summer doing this fall planting along with some mid summer efforts to plant brassica into my clover (another story).
Crowd them out....worked for me.....until it didn't this summer. Now with my new to me but used "upgraded GP drill" I believe I got my clover seed buried too deep due to the previous owner's set ups....wehich were wrong for my purposes....and me not being aware of typical practice with these drills. Anyway.....for whatever reason.....I did not get good clover coming up under my rye this spring and that become more evident upon rolling my rye in mid July. After rolling my rye....I got a Marestail outbreak that came on very quickly in many places.....especially my worst land.....but also anywhere the clover did not take hold. The clover was quite late to the party. this year...but it is coming in now....thankfully.
Why the weed outbreak?.....because I allowed too much open space for weeds to grow....IMO. Been said...".nature abhors a vacuum".....and will fill it with something to replace what you neglect to do.
I may reconsider how long I wait to roll my rye going into next year......as I think the heavy rye planting I do may have taken the space (and prevented the light) from germinating some of that clover (?). Also we had an extremely wet year....so that could make the difference. Also I do little to control any weeds with herbicides until after rolling my rye in mid July (other than to spot spray bull thistle in June). By that time this year.....it was getting pretty late to the weed party. I may have dodged a bullet with some timely spraying here....but I really want to understand my plans going forward.
I believe that if I had more "good stuff" emerged in my plots this year.....that I would not have had the weed issues I have encountered. So....with this background I am hopeful some others with these similar issue may add some words of wisdom to this thought process of Crowd Them Out.....and Roots in the Ground. Maybe just a hickup in the road......but I am Curious to hear from others. Ideas? Thanks for any input here.
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Post by Foggy on Aug 7, 2024 11:19:58 GMT -6
Pics tell the tale. Here are two pics. One of my best land at the moment.....and one of the worst. and one more for good measure of some ground I nuked with glyphosate and planted into brassica recently. That brassica is coming on better now than in the pic.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Aug 7, 2024 12:45:04 GMT -6
What do you guys like better turnips or radishes? Both ?
I usually do a mix, but what do your deer prefer ?
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Post by benmnwi on Aug 7, 2024 13:00:37 GMT -6
What do you guys like better turnips or radishes? Both ? I usually do a mix, but what do your deer prefer ? If it's totally for late season, I prefer turnips and dwarf essex rape. I want the deer to start using my brassica plots a little earlier though, so I add groundhog radishes to that mix to get them used to eating at that area earlier in the fall. The radishes are usually browsed hard early and then the turnips/rape take over.
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Post by smsmith on Aug 7, 2024 13:06:34 GMT -6
What do you guys like better turnips or radishes? Both ? I usually do a mix, but what do your deer prefer ? Ben nailed it already. I like radishes because I've never planted them and had them not get used. Turnips cam be iffier on use if winter starts early. I guess even then they'll get used during a thaw. Deer here aren't picky. They eat what is available Edit...radishes also seem to germinate and grow more quickly than other brassicas. I've planted them as late as Labor Day and still got some nice top growth. Not much for tubers though
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Post by Sandbur on Aug 7, 2024 17:30:05 GMT -6
I just posted the below over at a different site where I have been posting more these days. Several others there use a drill and are doing more things the way I am attempting to do things.....so I spend more time at that site these days. Stu was very influential in my going to a drill a few years ago......and still is a "go-to guy" for sound advice on so many topics....as are others. Anyway.....thought I would post this as it gives some background on what I been doing. (Seems there is always another curve ball that Mother Nature throws at you). Crowd Them Out! Dealing with Weeds.
I was just was thinking on weed problems I have had.....and continue to have at times. Some background to get on the same page....
When I got started into no-till and regenerative ag (4 years ago).....My weed problem that got my attention was pigweed. I was planting corn and soybeans with my JD71 two row planter via lots of tillage and fertilizer. I was first using RR beans and then spraying weeds with glyphosate and later went to liberty link beans and Interline herbicide. I also had about 1/2 my plots in clovers.....and some winter rye cover crop. Pigweed finally became a huge issue to me......and it was growing in the open spaces between the rows. I spent allot of time trying to control the weeds and grow the crops in rows.
It finally dawned on me that the open rows were creating the space for the weeds to grow and finally consider going the no-till route. Duh! (also, enter an affordable drill "Tar River" to the marketplace). I had allot of time on my hands due to my wife going thru some surgeries and spending allot of time at the hospital, etc. As a diversion I started reading all I could and got some good feedback from others on forums and YouTube.......and I remember the term "Crowd The Weeds Out". And started to consider the drill and the regenerative ag. SD and Catscratch and some others were very helpful to me early on.....as were some members at another site.
That summer I was unable to take care of my plots (due to wife's hospital events) and we were in a huge drought (somewhat typical in my sandy land). My plots turned into a disaster and I knew I needed to start over. Had those events not happened.....I may still be doing the same old routine....who knows(?). I watched all the video's I could, and read some books on regenerative ag (thanks CAT!). Finally saw the light. I was able to purchase a new Saya 505 drill and figured out what seeds to drill in fall. I nuked (glyphosate and 24D) and prepared 100% of my food plots at the time...about 8 acres total, and another 2 acres of land "under development" too.
Crowd 'em out was my mantra. I planted 2 bu of rye / acre along with red clover, Alice white clover, peas, turnips, DER, GHR, and more. If I get my intitial seed sheets out.....I was putting down about 134 lbs of seeds / acre and quite a combination. Fortunately, just when I got this done it started raining.....and we had good rains throughout the fall. I had beautiful stands of those crops I planted and into spring the clover and rye came back in spades. Major weed problems seemed to vanish. I still spot sprayed some bull thistles and was taking down mullein and pulled a little remaining pigweed. I started to take note on the varieties of "weeds" that came about.
I was into a rinse and repeat of the rye and clover combo after trying a "summer release" idea that didn't work for me......as we have too short of a growing season here in USDA zone 3. So,I got to my fourth summer doing this fall planting along with some mid summer efforts to plant brassica into my clover (another story).
Crowd them out....worked for me.....until it didn't this summer. Now with my new to me but used "upgraded GP drill" I believe I got my clover seed buried too deep due to the previous owner's set ups....wehich were wrong for my purposes....and me not being aware of typical practice with these drills. Anyway.....for whatever reason.....I did not get good clover coming up under my rye this spring and that become more evident upon rolling my rye in mid July. After rolling my rye....I got a Marestail outbreak that came on very quickly in many places.....especially my worst land.....but also anywhere the clover did not take hold. The clover was quite late to the party. this year...but it is coming in now....thankfully.
Why the weed outbreak?.....because I allowed too much open space for weeds to grow....IMO. Been said...".nature abhors a vacuum".....and will fill it with something to replace what you neglect to do.
I may reconsider how long I wait to roll my rye going into next year......as I think the heavy rye planting I do may have taken the space (and prevented the light) from germinating some of that clover (?). Also we had an extremely wet year....so that could make the difference. Also I do little to control any weeds with herbicides until after rolling my rye in mid July (other than to spot spray bull thistle in June). By that time this year.....it was getting pretty late to the weed party. I may have dodged a bullet with some timely spraying here....but I really want to understand my plans going forward.
I believe that if I had more "good stuff" emerged in my plots this year.....that I would not have had the weed issues I have encountered. So....with this background I am hopeful some others with these similar issue may add some words of wisdom to this thought process of Crowd Them Out.....and Roots in the Ground. Maybe just a hickup in the road......but I am Curious to hear from others. Ideas? Thanks for any input here.I know you had some beautiful Alice clover in the past. That rye looked thick from your pictures. Besides the crowding factor, does it chemically suppress some of the seeds in your mixture? You mentioned crowding the weeds out. There is a real problem in the corn plot by my house due to the variety of soils and moisture holding ability. My neighbors sprays it once when he does the other corn plots. The key is to get canopy closure and the corn doesn’t grow/ germinate at the same rate with the soil variations. My back corn plot is more uniform and looks much better. There was also less carry over corn back there. I know I should switch to beans for a year or two, but the neighbor doesn’t plant beans.
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Post by Foggy on Aug 7, 2024 19:03:48 GMT -6
^ Well....the Rye is supposed to suppress lots of weeds as it keeps roots in the ground and scavages nitrogen and provides potash when you terminate it. Lots of value there....when it works. What I somehow failed to do is to get clover well established in some areas.....and that provided space for the horsetail to take hole (that is what I think anyway).
The drill I bought was configured to drop the seeds from the small seed box nearly as deep in the seed trench as the large seed box.........and I think that was my problem. Thus....buried so deep and having a high rye population the clover did not respond as it has in other years. Normally I plant my rye and any other large seeds at about 3/4" to an inch deep. (at least that is what I think happened). So....the marestail took over under the rye. They seem compatible for whatever reason.
I have since reconfigured my drill to drop the small seed box behind the seed trench to be pushed slightly into the ground by the press wheels......and I hope that will solve my issues.
I'm not 100% sure that this is the issue.....but it's what I am going with at the moment. Always more to learn.
EDIT: Since the marestail issue.....I have sprayed some of the plots with glyphosate and some with Imox to get rid of the weed issues. Also had some poor soils with rye that I mowed as I wanted a re-seed from the rye. Accomplished two things by doing that.....got the rye reseeded via mowing.......and got rid of the Marestail before the seed is viable (I hope). Just today I put some seeds from the Marestail stalks in a rag doll test and will see if the seeds are viable. (the rye does germinate)
The glyphosate allowed me to plant brassica immediately after.....and those areas are growing things again. However the Imox has some plant back restrictions......and I am not seeing a decent growth on some trial seeds I put down about 10 days later.
I feel like I just wrote a novel. grin.
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