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Post by Sandbur on Feb 18, 2017 6:21:22 GMT -6
My Norland did the best on ranetka. I Northland did Ok, but none reached 4 feet. I have the rest planted in too wet of a site.
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Post by nhmountains on Feb 18, 2017 6:37:57 GMT -6
My Norland did the best on ranetka. I Northland did Ok, but none reached 4 feet. I have the rest planted in too wet of a site. How old is it Art? Could you bring in more soil and build a mound?
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Post by nhmountains on Feb 18, 2017 6:39:42 GMT -6
A post from the NAFEX group on FB "A Dixie Red Delight apple I dug today from my nursery beds, for repotting. What's notable about that, you're wondering? This is a ROOT GRAFT I made last spring. I skipped the whole rootstock thing and grafted the scion directly onto a small piece of bare root, which I planted with the union BELOW ground. The union is right below that tag, you can see the swelling, and it served as a NURSE ROOT until the Dixie Red put out it's own roots, that fine cluster you see right above the tag. This was common practice in earlier centuries. Has anyone else experience with heirloom apples or pears on their own roots?"Stu, Any photos there here on this root grafting process? Seems interesting.
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Post by wiscwhip on Feb 18, 2017 6:49:42 GMT -6
Again, as everyone knows, I'm not an apple guy at all, but I agree that the method above looks interesting and I had a question if anyone would like to elaborate a bit. So if a guy was planting apples in sandy soil, is there a rootstock that would be considered to have a very deep tap root which would reach down to the water table? When I look at the pic above, it seems that something like this would work on sandy soil if you have the longest tap root possible pulling groundwater up and then let the parent tree roots collect any moisture from the surface? Maybe I'm in left field, but the concept makes sense to me.
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Post by smsmith on Feb 18, 2017 7:09:54 GMT -6
Any photos there here on this root grafting process? Seems interesting. Nope, that was the entire post
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Post by smsmith on Feb 18, 2017 7:14:49 GMT -6
Whip, what will likely end up happening is that the variety's roots will "take over" and the original rootstock will wither away.
On sandy soil, I preferred a rootstock with a very fibrous rootsystem (b118). I had begun playing around with both ranetka and baccata in Juneau county too. They both appeared to survive and grow in unamended, low ph, sandy soil. The best rootstock with a large "carrot like" tap root would be antonovka. I had a few trees on antonovka in J.C. and they struggled the first couple of years. Once they were established, they did okay.
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Post by wiscwhip on Feb 18, 2017 7:44:59 GMT -6
Thanks for the explanation stu. I really wish we would have known what rootstock the trees we planted in Juneau were. We bought them at the Deer Classic one year and they were shipped to us from someplace in MI is all I really remember. Pretty sure I remember the old man saying they were Macintosh, but we didn't know that apples were "grafted" to some roots other than their own back in those days.
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Post by smsmith on Feb 18, 2017 7:50:08 GMT -6
I can tell you to NOT use M7, M111, M106,or B9 in that kind of setting.
Back then, I'd have put my money on most internet/mail order trees being on M7....it's still one of the most commonly used rootstocks in the industry.
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Post by wiscwhip on Feb 18, 2017 7:53:38 GMT -6
M7 has been my suspicion since learning about the different rootstocks. The trees are on the smaller side of semi-dwarf, so no way are they on any type of full or near full sized roots.
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Post by Sandbur on Feb 18, 2017 11:45:10 GMT -6
My Norland did the best on ranetka. I Northland did Ok, but none reached 4 feet. I have the rest planted in too wet of a site. How old is it Art? Could you bring in more soil and build a mound? I should get some equipment to push up a berm. It is good soil, but just too wet at times.
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Post by chummer16 on Feb 18, 2017 12:07:15 GMT -6
I am going to try grafting some of my better native trees this year. It will be my first time grafting. Two questions, can I use water sprouts and when do I want to graft? It looks like in the videos they are doing it at bud break.
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Post by smsmith on Feb 18, 2017 12:23:38 GMT -6
Yes, you can use water sprouts. They aren't ideal, but if that's all you can get...that's all you can get. For top working trees you should wait until the trees have broken dormancy (you still want your scions dormant however). The old saying was to top work when the leaves were the size of a mouse's ear.
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Post by chummer16 on Feb 18, 2017 13:57:25 GMT -6
Yes, you can use water sprouts. They aren't ideal, but if that's all you can get...that's all you can get. For top working trees you should wait until the trees have broken dormancy (you still want your scions dormant however). The old saying was to top work when the leaves were the size of a mouse's ear. Thanks. I just don't see any new growth on these old trees other than water sprouts. Maybe I just didn't pay attention. I have one late hanging tree that is free of FB and has apples every year. I am going to start with that one. Maybe because it wasn't hit by FB last year I can find some new growth. Last year was a really bad for FB in my area. There very few trees that weren't effected.
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Post by chummer16 on Feb 19, 2017 8:30:39 GMT -6
Would type of grafts would you guys recommend for someone starting out. Looks like cleft would be the easiest?
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Post by smsmith on Feb 19, 2017 11:32:43 GMT -6
I'm not sure what would be easiest, that may vary from person to person. Bark grafting seems quite easy to me. Whip and tongue is probably more complicate than cleft
Since you're in the northeast, I'd bet there are apple grafting workshops/training sessions available near you. The best thing I did grafting wise was to attend a class put on at a university extension.
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