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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 8:13:04 GMT -6
I have no regrets about not buying a bunch of different stocks in the markets. Because if we are buying thinking a stock is going up, that means someone else is selling thinking it’s going down. I know my chances at gambling with a 50/50 outcome, I will be wrong 90% of the time. If you guys are good at stock market gambling, go for it. I know I can’t win. ^. This is fallacy. Stocks are not the kind of gambling you say here. Edit: at least not good quality companies at fair prices.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 8:29:52 GMT -6
I have no regrets about not buying a bunch of different stocks in the markets. Because if we are buying thinking a stock is going up, that means someone else is selling thinking it’s going down. I know my chances at gambling with a 50/50 outcome, I will be wrong 90% of the time. If you guys are good at stock market gambling, go for it. I know I can’t win. ^. This is fallacy. Stocks are not the kind of gambling you say here. Edit: at least not good quality companies at fair prices. Bullshit! Just ask the people that lost $50/share when all the Steve Wynn's hide the banana payouts came out. You are gambling with each fucking company, and their fucked up management!
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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 8:39:09 GMT -6
^. This is fallacy. Stocks are not the kind of gambling you say here. Edit: at least not good quality companies at fair prices. Bullshit! Just ask the people that lost $50/share when all the Steve Wynn's hide the banana payouts came out. You are gambling with each fucking company, and their fucked up management! I figured that this would fire you up. LMAO. I guess we can disagree on this one. . Maybe Freeborn can chime in......you BELIEVE him. lol
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Post by Catscratch on Jan 30, 2018 8:43:24 GMT -6
Not all gambling at the casino is the same. I can play all night on the roulette or blackjack tables. But I don't make squat doing it! I just loose what I have slowly. When I leave it's time to put it all on red and win big or go home...
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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 8:44:09 GMT -6
^ This would be like saying that every farm that is sold is done with only winners and losers. Not so. Over time both folks may have gotten a good deal as the land value goes up for the buyer.....and the seller buys other land which also is valuable to him. Just saying.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 8:46:56 GMT -6
Bullshit! Just ask the people that lost $50/share when all the Steve Wynn's hide the banana payouts came out. You are gambling with each fucking company, and their fucked up management! I figured that this would fire you up. LMAO. I guess we can disagree on this one. . Maybe Freeborn can chime in......you BELIEVE him. lol Can't fire me up buddy! I just laugh watching all these guys trip over themselves to to figure out which stocks are not Enrons and Tyco's of the 2000's. A stock with no earnings history always turn's out to be big a winner! LOL! Good luck Buddy!
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Post by benmnwi on Jan 30, 2018 12:31:37 GMT -6
For the guys who buy individual stocks as opposed to mutual funds how do your annual returns compare to the DJIA over the same time frame? I have friends who buy individual stocks and I hear about how much this one or that one increased in value, but I question whether on average they beat a standard mutual fund once the all the stocks are tallied up. I think guys can get lucky picking over the short term, but I struggle to think you could consistently beat a decent mutual fund by a large margin. Maybe I'm wrong though.
I know I likely won't do better than the average, so I stick with a solid mutual fund or two and call it good.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 13:05:01 GMT -6
For the guys who buy individual stocks as opposed to mutual funds how do your annual returns compare to the DJIA over the same time frame? I have friends who buy individual stocks and I hear about how much this one or that one increased in value, but I question whether on average they beat a standard mutual fund once the all the stocks are tallied up. I think guys can get lucky picking over the short term, but I struggle to think you could consistently beat a decent mutual fund by a large margin. Maybe I'm wrong though. I know I likely won't do better than the average, so I stick with a solid mutual fund or two and call it good. Having a stock go up a bunch, means nothing unless a guy sells it. Pretty certain guys on this forum are not out guessing billion dollar mutual funds or trillion dollar hedge funds when all the smoke clears. JMO!
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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 13:43:03 GMT -6
For the guys who buy individual stocks as opposed to mutual funds how do your annual returns compare to the DJIA over the same time frame? I have friends who buy individual stocks and I hear about how much this one or that one increased in value, but I question whether on average they beat a standard mutual fund once the all the stocks are tallied up. I think guys can get lucky picking over the short term, but I struggle to think you could consistently beat a decent mutual fund by a large margin. Maybe I'm wrong though. I know I likely won't do better than the average, so I stick with a solid mutual fund or two and call it good. I was / am a big believer in a mutual funds with a fund manager that has a GOOD TRACK RECORD. Pretty hard to beat those guys.....or for that matter some of the better index funds. (LOW FEES - knowledgeable folks). I own a few funds now......but mostly own individual blue chip stocks that pay dividends and are a bit "stogey" by my old standards of growth stocks. Then too it's hard to quickly assemble some investments - such as small caps and foreign stocks in the right mixes without paying high commissions. Same goes for some specialty investments where a pool of money (fund) is large enough to own the investment shares.....but an individual is just too small to enter (Floating rate funds, MLP's and such). But, The BIGGEST reason to own individual stocks over funds is that YOU can determine your taxes with individual stocks rather than paying on the gains each year when you own a fund. As MO says you wont pay taxes until you sell the stock (or land) and realize the gain. Lots of folks will hold good blue chip stocks until they die (just like farmland) as their heirs will avoid paying any tax on the increased value of the stocks (or land) at your demise (stepped up valuations). Meanwhile if you have enough money (very deep pockets)......you live off the dividends and interest from the interest bearing accounts (ideally, tax free muni-bonds?). Last year I turned 70.5 ......so now I gotta start withdrawing my IRA money and pay some taxes on that. Cant avoid taxes forever. FORE!
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Post by Freeborn on Jan 30, 2018 15:17:43 GMT -6
I have no regrets about not buying a bunch of different stocks in the markets. Because if we are buying thinking a stock is going up, that means someone else is selling thinking it’s going down. I know my chances at gambling with a 50/50 outcome, I will be wrong 90% of the time. If you guys are good at stock market gambling, go for it. I know I can’t win. Sorry Mo but that is not exactly true. Many if not most investors sell a stock because they want to buy an alternative stock they believe will out-perform their current investments. I have investments that I like and are going up but they are not going up as fast as other investments therefore I sell the stock under-performing in my portfolio and buy one that I believe will perform better. Many large companies enter and exit markets by acquiring companies in those markets, after running that company if they find it is not providing the returns they wanted they divest not because its value is going down but because its not performing well enough.
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Post by Freeborn on Jan 30, 2018 15:30:57 GMT -6
For the guys who buy individual stocks as opposed to mutual funds how do your annual returns compare to the DJIA over the same time frame? I have friends who buy individual stocks and I hear about how much this one or that one increased in value, but I question whether on average they beat a standard mutual fund once the all the stocks are tallied up. I think guys can get lucky picking over the short term, but I struggle to think you could consistently beat a decent mutual fund by a large margin. Maybe I'm wrong though. I know I likely won't do better than the average, so I stick with a solid mutual fund or two and call it good. Having a stock go up a bunch, means nothing unless a guy sells it. Pretty certain guys on this forum are not out guessing billion dollar mutual funds or trillion dollar hedge funds when all the smoke clears. JMO! Sorry Mo but that's not true either. There is allot of benefit to owning a company stock that goes up in value and as an owner you don't sell. Most company values are based on earnings and if the company has grown earnings lets say because the market has grown you own part of a company with more customers and more future earnings. In addition, if your owning part of a company that is going up in value but does not get taxed this is of value particularly if you are planning on passing the stock to your family. A stocks cost basis is stepped up to the current market price when a person dies.
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Post by Freeborn on Jan 30, 2018 15:48:33 GMT -6
^. This is fallacy. Stocks are not the kind of gambling you say here. Edit: at least not good quality companies at fair prices. Bullshit! Just ask the people that lost $50/share when all the Steve Wynn's hide the banana payouts came out. You are gambling with each fucking company, and their fucked up management! ^Agree with Foggy. All this talk of buying individual stocks is not reality, anybody who just buys individual stocks has quality counsel or they are taking huge risks. Don't get me wrong having a portion of your portfolio in individual stocks is OK but diversification (stocks, mutual funds, preferred stocks, bonds Reits etc.) is how you protect yourself. At the same time I can say many average investors have made tremendous wealth by investing in the market.
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Post by sd51555 on Jan 30, 2018 16:15:45 GMT -6
For the guys who buy individual stocks as opposed to mutual funds how do your annual returns compare to the DJIA over the same time frame? I have friends who buy individual stocks and I hear about how much this one or that one increased in value, but I question whether on average they beat a standard mutual fund once the all the stocks are tallied up. I think guys can get lucky picking over the short term, but I struggle to think you could consistently beat a decent mutual fund by a large margin. Maybe I'm wrong though. I know I likely won't do better than the average, so I stick with a solid mutual fund or two and call it good. It's easy to beat the Dow. It's the S&P that is hard to beat, and as I always like to remind, that is the real market. Three years ago, I was woefully underperforming the market as I was getting going and chasing stupid shit (Don't ever read Stansbury). Lately? I've been beating the pants off the market for the past year. The thing I'm most proud of is that I finished converting all of my old 401k to my Roth IRA. That has proven to be the best move I've made the past few years. Didn't do any savvy stock picking, just slowly loaded up on solid companies the past few years and bought the dips. Rinse and repeat.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 16:31:25 GMT -6
Bullshit! Just ask the people that lost $50/share when all the Steve Wynn's hide the banana payouts came out. You are gambling with each fucking company, and their fucked up management! ^Agree with Foggy. All this talk of buying individual stocks is not reality, anybody who just buys individual stocks has quality counsel or they are taking huge risks. Don't get me wrong having a portion of your portfolio in individual stocks is OK but diversification (stocks, mutual funds, preferred stocks, bonds Reits etc.) is how you protect yourself. At the same time I can say many average investors have made tremendous wealth by investing in the market. We all have made paper wealth recently, most on this forum have not made a dime in cash because it has not been cashed in. Glad you know so many that are making fortunes. I saw a bunch ten years ago making fortunes until the crash and they all lost their houses! Very few of us are true buyers and sellers of stocks on a daily basis to make money! Only you and Foggy I guess! LOL!
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 16:42:52 GMT -6
Having a stock go up a bunch, means nothing unless a guy sells it. Pretty certain guys on this forum are not out guessing billion dollar mutual funds or trillion dollar hedge funds when all the smoke clears. JMO! Sorry Mo but that's not true either. There is allot of benefit to owning a company stock that goes up in value and as an owner you don't sell. Most company values are based on earnings and if the company has grown earnings lets say because the market has grown you own part of a company with more customers and more future earnings. In addition, if your owning part of a company that is going up in value but does not get taxed this is of value particularly if you are planning on passing the stock to your family. A stocks cost basis is stepped up to the current market price when a person dies. No, its almost entirely true for most people, at least in my world. Just ask all the people from Enron how is that value and earnings doing? Only the CEO new when to sell, not the people holding the stock for future growth. We all know how thousands of 401K's ended up with that. You make no money unless you sell at the correct time, and too many times most of us hold, because we are taught to hold for the future. All that does is help increase the odds of losing! The past ten years is a great run, until it is capped off by a great loss, hope you all sell off before that happens!
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