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Post by Freeborn on Jan 30, 2018 16:45:13 GMT -6
^Agree with Foggy. All this talk of buying individual stocks is not reality, anybody who just buys individual stocks has quality counsel or they are taking huge risks. Don't get me wrong having a portion of your portfolio in individual stocks is OK but diversification (stocks, mutual funds, preferred stocks, bonds Reits etc.) is how you protect yourself. At the same time I can say many average investors have made tremendous wealth by investing in the market. We all have made paper wealth recently, most on this forum have not made a dime in cash because it has not been cashed in. Glad you know so many that are making fortunes. I saw a bunch ten years ago making fortunes until the crash and they all lost their houses! Very few of us are true buyers and sellers of stocks on a daily basis to make money! Only you and Foggy I guess! LOL! I don't buy and sell stocks, I buy and hold or I don't buy. By far most of my wealth is in some type of Mutual fund. To Foggy's point, he is moving part of his portfolio into stocks so when he passes away his family will own them tax free. With Foggy now required to take withdrawl from his pre-tax retirement funds I bet he is spending allot more time working on tax free investments like municipal bonds.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 16:46:30 GMT -6
I have no regrets about not buying a bunch of different stocks in the markets. Because if we are buying thinking a stock is going up, that means someone else is selling thinking it’s going down. I know my chances at gambling with a 50/50 outcome, I will be wrong 90% of the time. If you guys are good at stock market gambling, go for it. I know I can’t win. Sorry Mo but that is not exactly true. Many if not most investors sell a stock because they want to buy an alternative stock they believe will out-perform their current investments. I have investments that I like and are going up but they are not going up as fast as other investments therefore I sell the stock under-performing in my portfolio and buy one that I believe will perform better. Many large companies enter and exit markets by acquiring companies in those markets, after running that company if they find it is not providing the returns they wanted they divest not because its value is going down but because its not performing well enough. It is exactly true! Company stocks are like pieces of pie, there are only so many that are offered up. To get one, someone has to sell. So most people thinking its run its course, sell. The others wouldn't be buying unless they think its going up. So someone is wrong. Pretty simple! Too Me!
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 16:48:55 GMT -6
We all have made paper wealth recently, most on this forum have not made a dime in cash because it has not been cashed in. Glad you know so many that are making fortunes. I saw a bunch ten years ago making fortunes until the crash and they all lost their houses! Very few of us are true buyers and sellers of stocks on a daily basis to make money! Only you and Foggy I guess! LOL! I don't buy and sell stocks, I buy and hold or I don't buy. By far most of my wealth is in some type of Mutual fund. To Foggy's point, he is moving part of his portfolio into stocks so when he passes away his family will own them tax free. With Foggy now required to take withdrawl from his pre-tax retirement funds I bet he is spending allot more time working on tax free investments like municipal bonds. I rest my case, you buy and hold like most of us, and Foggy is Old........
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Post by Freeborn on Jan 30, 2018 16:50:42 GMT -6
Sorry Mo but that's not true either. There is allot of benefit to owning a company stock that goes up in value and as an owner you don't sell. Most company values are based on earnings and if the company has grown earnings lets say because the market has grown you own part of a company with more customers and more future earnings. In addition, if your owning part of a company that is going up in value but does not get taxed this is of value particularly if you are planning on passing the stock to your family. A stocks cost basis is stepped up to the current market price when a person dies. No, its almost entirely true for most people, at least in my world. Just ask all the people from Enron how is that value and earnings doing? Only the CEO new when to sell, not the people holding the stock for future growth. We all know how thousands of 401K's ended up with that. You make no money unless you sell at the correct time, and too many times most of us hold, because we are taught to hold for the future. All that does is help increase the odds of losing! The past ten years is a great run, until it is capped off by a great loss, hope you all sell off before that happens! In your case I would keep most of my wealth out of the market and in whatever works for you.
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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 16:54:47 GMT -6
I retired about 12 years ago. My income comes almost entirely from "the market" (I do get Social Security too) and I get a check each month based on my investments. I have more wealth now than I did when I retired 12 years ago even tho I have taken substantial money each year to live on.....yes even going thru the downturn of '08. So....I am living proof that you can live off investments in the markets. Stocks are not evil.....they are a good thing if you understand how to own them and don't treat the market as "gambling". End of story.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 16:55:17 GMT -6
No, its almost entirely true for most people, at least in my world. Just ask all the people from Enron how is that value and earnings doing? Only the CEO new when to sell, not the people holding the stock for future growth. We all know how thousands of 401K's ended up with that. You make no money unless you sell at the correct time, and too many times most of us hold, because we are taught to hold for the future. All that does is help increase the odds of losing! The past ten years is a great run, until it is capped off by a great loss, hope you all sell off before that happens! In your case I would keep most of my wealth out of the market and in whatever works for you. I wish! I am just as lucky as everyone else to be able to buy any stock or fund this last ten years and watch it go up. I have done extremely well on paper the last ten years!
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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 16:59:37 GMT -6
This thread reads a bit like "Fractured Fairy Tales" to me. lol
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 17:06:34 GMT -6
This thread reads a bit like "Fractured Fairy Tales" to me. lol It is a bunch of fairy tales to most of us. You built a great business, that when sold and invested gave you a huge income stream to live off of, no matter if it was to earn 5% or 50% per year. Most on here will never see that. So they buy, hold and reinvest dividends in there 401K's from work, hoping that the money is there 35 years down the road. Just the way it is. So, its paper wealth for most on here. End of story! Congrats to you Foggy! But when I get down there I plan oon taking as many of those $100 bills as I can!
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Post by Freeborn on Jan 30, 2018 17:10:16 GMT -6
Lets hope economic growth continues at a level that earnings grow because if it does it will make us armchair investors look like were brilliant. More importantly it will give us a better standard of living.
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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 17:25:46 GMT -6
This thread reads a bit like "Fractured Fairy Tales" to me. lol It is a bunch of fairy tales to most of us. You built a great business, that when sold and invested gave you a huge income stream to live off of, no matter if it was to earn 5% or 50% per year. Most on here will never see that. So they buy, hold and reinvest dividends in there 401K's from work, hoping that the money is there 35 years down the road. Just the way it is. So, its paper wealth for most on here. End of story! Congrats to you Foggy! But when I get down there I plan oon taking as many of those $100 bills as I can! Yeah....but MO. There are many thousands upon thousands of folks like me that retire and live off their investments. The whole valley here in OZ is full of those people. Same goes for FL and many other folks in retirement. Then too.....many of my friends are farmers here.....and they live off the cash rents from their land.....and hold onto their land as the increased value would ensure huge tax gains if they were to sell. Lots of other stories such as that here. Folks figure it out....and try to live within their means.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Jan 30, 2018 17:34:12 GMT -6
It is a bunch of fairy tales to most of us. You built a great business, that when sold and invested gave you a huge income stream to live off of, no matter if it was to earn 5% or 50% per year. Most on here will never see that. So they buy, hold and reinvest dividends in there 401K's from work, hoping that the money is there 35 years down the road. Just the way it is. So, its paper wealth for most on here. End of story! Congrats to you Foggy! But when I get down there I plan oon taking as many of those $100 bills as I can! Yeah....but MO. There are many thousands upon thousands of folks like me that retire and live off their investments. The whole valley here in OZ is full of those people. Same goes for FL and many other folks in retirement. Then too.....many of my friends are farmers here.....and they live off the cash rents from their land.....and hold onto their land as the increased value would ensure huge tax gains if they were to sell. Lots of other stories such as that here. Folks figure it out....and try to live within their means. 320 million people live in the USA. Even if it were more than Thousands living off their investments, 300 million won't be living off investments. People do not save now, most growing up right now will never see their 401K's because they take loans against them or just cash them in. Our generation is one of saver's, the next generation is not!
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Post by Sandbur on Jan 30, 2018 19:32:09 GMT -6
Yeah....but MO. There are many thousands upon thousands of folks like me that retire and live off their investments. The whole valley here in OZ is full of those people. Same goes for FL and many other folks in retirement. Then too.....many of my friends are farmers here.....and they live off the cash rents from their land.....and hold onto their land as the increased value would ensure huge tax gains if they were to sell. Lots of other stories such as that here. Folks figure it out....and try to live within their means. 320 million people live in the USA. Even if it were more than Thousands living off their investments, 300 million won't be living off investments. People do not save now, most growing up right now will never see their 401K's because they take loans against them or just cash them in. Our generation is one of saver's, the next generation is not yet ! Corrected. Give them a chance ...
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Post by sd51555 on Jan 30, 2018 19:39:29 GMT -6
No generation is loaded with savers.
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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 20:10:45 GMT -6
Nobody is promised an equal finish.....but we all deserve an equal start. I think we get that. I think those folks that spend or take loans on their retirement nest egg......are not too bright......and do so at their own peril. Live within your means. This country does not have an income problem.....we have a spending problem. You can't save 'em all. . FORE!
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Post by Foggy on Jan 30, 2018 22:17:54 GMT -6
Trump Delivered! MAGA Donald! SKOL!
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