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Post by benmnwi on Jan 15, 2019 12:26:47 GMT -6
I'll be walking my SE MN property with a private forester later this week to see if logging is a good option for my property. I've walked it with a DNR forester a while back and he thought there would be enough timber to interest loggers. My property has a mix of oaks, basswood, cherry and cottonwoods. And buckthorn. The oaks in the red oak family are dying pretty quickly from oak wilt, so I'll either log it soon or let nature take its course. The private forester would get 10% of the sale price and he would be in charge of marking the trees, sending the quote package out to loggers for bid and verifying that the logging is done correctly.
I'd like to improve the wildlife habitat by getting some sun to the ground, make a little money and hopefully open up the canopy to improve the growth rate on the good trees that are left. I'm fine with a small clear cut or two as well since I know oaks need a lot of sun to survive. My plan would be to remove a lot of the red oaks, but leave the bur and white oaks unless they are dying or removing one would help an adjacent bur/white oak.
Does anyone have any advice about questions I should be asking this forester?
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Post by Sandbur on Jan 15, 2019 18:36:53 GMT -6
I met with one in Dec. he gets 8 % and said he would visit the site at least twice during the sale.
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Post by Sandbur on Jan 15, 2019 18:40:03 GMT -6
I learned a lot about regrowth, time of harvest for best prices, time to harvest again, pros and cons of how much to thin in a pine plantation.
We were basically looking at a pine plantation and two types of popple.
He is an avid deer hunter which helps a lot!
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Post by wiscwhip on Jan 15, 2019 18:56:21 GMT -6
I would inquire about walking it with him after the trees were marked, if only to get a feel for what might be getting cut. The other reason would be to have the option to leave a marked tree here or there if they made sense as a stand tree. Once they take steel to wood, that prime stand tree will not be back in your lifetime.
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Post by nhmountains on Jan 15, 2019 19:15:06 GMT -6
Talk to him about log landings and whether they’ll stump them. Those could become food plots or orchards. Talk to him about when it’ll be cut so you aren’t left with huge skidder ruts. Road placement for their trucks to remove the logs.
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Post by MN Slick on Jan 16, 2019 8:19:12 GMT -6
We walked with our forester while he was marking trees. Interesting and you can have him skip trees if you think you might want a stand there someday.
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Post by jbird on Jan 16, 2019 10:07:12 GMT -6
Like was mentioned I STRONGLY suggest you either walk with him while he is marking trees or at least have the power to VETO any selection BEFORE the bidding process. Removing the oak that is damaged or dying is a good call that some folks struggle with. Also make sure that he understands that the logger is to take EVERYTHING and not just the good stuff. Otherwise you end up with a lot of large junk left. Discuss access routes thru the timber and felling/loading areas and the like. Also discuss any access that may require culverts, stream crossings and or gravel... Also discuss if you are leaving the tops where they fall or if you want them moved or even removed all together. You want to discuss EVERY possible detail you can think of. You also want the trees marked in a manner so not only is the log marked but so is the remaining stump. Some loggers tend to take a few extra if given the chance. Make sure any trail leveling, and the like is discussed as well. You can have all these things as part of the contract vs you having to pay someone out of your pocket to have the work done. EVERYTHING is negotiable and up for discussion....
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Post by benmnwi on Jan 16, 2019 10:11:32 GMT -6
I agree with the suggestions to keep potential stand trees out of the sale. I have some fields within about 250 yards of the main oak harvest area, so ideally they could just use the fields as a log landing. I'm hoping that a logging operation will make my property much thicker to hold as many deer as possible when the inevitable CWD kill them all hunts arrive at my place. Any internal log landings will likely get planted to spruce or a shrub mix.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Jan 16, 2019 11:43:14 GMT -6
Does anyone know the approx value of a cord of aspen or oak in MN? I read it somewhere, but lost that page.
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Post by benmnwi on Jan 16, 2019 12:20:40 GMT -6
Like was mentioned I STRONGLY suggest you either walk with him while he is marking trees or at least have the power to VETO any selection BEFORE the bidding process. Removing the oak that is damaged or dying is a good call that some folks struggle with. Also make sure that he understands that the logger is to take EVERYTHING and not just the good stuff. Otherwise you end up with a lot of large junk left. Discuss access routes thru the timber and felling/loading areas and the like. Also discuss any access that may require culverts, stream crossings and or gravel... Also discuss if you are leaving the tops where they fall or if you want them moved or even removed all together. You want to discuss EVERY possible detail you can think of. You also want the trees marked in a manner so not only is the log marked but so is the remaining stump. Some loggers tend to take a few extra if given the chance. Make sure any trail leveling, and the like is discussed as well. You can have all these things as part of the contract vs you having to pay someone out of your pocket to have the work done. EVERYTHING is negotiable and up for discussion.... I'll definitely make sure that everything is clearly identified and that I have the veto ability on any trees. When I initially spoke to the forester I told him I'm more concerned with removing all the "other" trees (cottonwood, basswood, misc. junk) because I didn't want my woods to turn into a junk wood factory. He said there are buyers interested in every tree species except boxelder. He also said that even the dead oaks may have some value to a local large firewood dealer. A farm I hunt was logged 25 years ago and they took every decent sized oak, walnut and cherry and left every boxelder and elm on the place. Now that woods is primarily junk trees and practically worthless. I definitely want to avoid a situation like that. A good friend hunted a property that was a lot like mine and his hunting improved significantly after the logging operation left the woods thick with tree tops and new growth. Logging in SE MN is not very common, so when it happens the deer usually respond quickly. I'll know more tomorrow though after the walk through. I appreciate the feedback. |
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Post by jbird on Jan 16, 2019 12:30:59 GMT -6
Like was mentioned I STRONGLY suggest you either walk with him while he is marking trees or at least have the power to VETO any selection BEFORE the bidding process. Removing the oak that is damaged or dying is a good call that some folks struggle with. Also make sure that he understands that the logger is to take EVERYTHING and not just the good stuff. Otherwise you end up with a lot of large junk left. Discuss access routes thru the timber and felling/loading areas and the like. Also discuss any access that may require culverts, stream crossings and or gravel... Also discuss if you are leaving the tops where they fall or if you want them moved or even removed all together. You want to discuss EVERY possible detail you can think of. You also want the trees marked in a manner so not only is the log marked but so is the remaining stump. Some loggers tend to take a few extra if given the chance. Make sure any trail leveling, and the like is discussed as well. You can have all these things as part of the contract vs you having to pay someone out of your pocket to have the work done. EVERYTHING is negotiable and up for discussion.... I'll definitely make sure that everything is clearly identified and that I have the veto ability on any trees. When I initially spoke to the forester I told him I'm more concerned with removing all the "other" trees (cottonwood, basswood, misc. junk) because I didn't want my woods to turn into a junk wood factory. He said there are buyers interested in every tree species except boxelder. He also said that even the dead oaks may have some value to a local large firewood dealer. A farm I hunt was logged 25 years ago and they took every decent sized oak, walnut and cherry and left every boxelder and elm on the place. Now that woods is primarily junk trees and practically worthless. I definitely want to avoid a situation like that. A good friend hunted a property that was a lot like mine and his hunting improved significantly after the logging operation left the woods thick with tree tops and new growth. Logging in SE MN is not very common, so when it happens the deer usually respond quickly. I'll know more tomorrow though after the walk through. I appreciate the feedback. Yep...you get it. My place was "high graded" (when they take only the best stuff) back before I got my hands on it. My first cutting was 90% junk. I didn't make a lot of money but it certainly needed to be done. It can take a woods a long time to recover from poor management. Some folks only see the $ and could care less about the rest. I was very involved with my harvest and at times it still made me sick or question my decision, but it was the best thing I ever did to the place. I hope the Forester and you are on the same page and things go well for you... |
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Post by benmnwi on Jan 16, 2019 13:53:13 GMT -6
jbird- How many years after the prior high grading logging job did you do your junk cutting? How frequently will future logging operations take place?
The forester I spoke with said they typically come up with a forestry plan that involves future cuttings every 10-15 years. My soil is fairly sandy in spots which reduces the growth rate so I'm assuming logging every 15 years might be more likely.
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Post by jbird on Jan 16, 2019 16:58:41 GMT -6
jbird- How many years after the prior high grading logging job did you do your junk cutting? How frequently will future logging operations take place? The forester I spoke with said they typically come up with a forestry plan that involves future cuttings every 10-15 years. My soil is fairly sandy in spots which reduces the growth rate so I'm assuming logging every 15 years might be more likely. I am not 100% certain how long it had been since my place was high graded, but it was at least 20 years, I'm guessing even far longer than that, maybe closer to 30 or more. Right now I'm figuring I will have following cuttings about every 15 to 20 years as well. Mostly because I have a decent amount of hard maple still standing that just wasn't big enough last time and a decent amount of yellow polar that grows fast and holds some decent value here. My place is still real heavy in the junk department and to be honest, I might have the loggers do some clear cutting next time just to really knock the piss out of the junk. I have lots of sycamore, ash, cottonwood, beech, elm, hackberry, hickories and just worthless shit. I had them take anything of acceptable size (in the junk department) last time because I wanted it gone (we took over 600 trees off of not quite 50 acres). The junk stuff just really seems to out-pace the good stuff. Now the good thing is I have a lot of walnut...cha-ching! My oaks I'll still hold onto even next time unless they are damaged, although I do have a monster red oak that needs to come out, but it will be a bear to access and get out of the woods. My "plan" is to let the understory tell me when it's time...especially for the junk to go...again. The biggest issue I will have is having enough to make it worth while. I have less than 50 acres of trees and I had a decent amount of time to let the junk get so big last time. To be honest...I'm not against having a cutting if I need and not get a dime. The habitat benefits I have seen and the like make it "worth it" all the same. Don't be afraid to have them take trees down that they are not interested in...let the pros fell them big twisted rotten bastards! Good luck to you and take lots of pictures with a post or something for comparison. Might even consider a browse cage to see what affect your deer are having on re-gen, just as an interesting point. |
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Post by snowracerh on Jan 16, 2019 20:23:39 GMT -6
Does anyone know the approx value of a cord of aspen or oak in MN? I read it somewhere, but lost that page. $15 to $25 last I heard, is what seller would get paid (western wi). That was a year or so ago. May have come up some since |
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Post by Foggy on Jan 16, 2019 20:32:45 GMT -6
When logging......leave a few more.....rather than a few less. My experience. The amount of money you get is not that much vs the value of a clump of a few extra trees here and there. Just saying.
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