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Post by sd51555 on Mar 27, 2019 8:07:02 GMT -6
I was having a talk with a friend of mine from back home this morning. He hunts primarily public ground, and some very limited private ground with permission. He doesn't enter the realm of extreme habitat manipulation, or even food plots. He made a comment I thought was very interesting, and quite possibly very accurate. Here's what he said:
"Land owners doing this extreme habitat stuff are just deer farms without a fence."
Have we blurred the lines that far with timber manipulation, orchards, NWSG, conifers, plot exclusions, barricades and mega-sized corn plots in the woods? From a guy's perspective like that, I can absolutely see where he's coming from. I know I have blood on my hands with what I have done with gypsum, clover, and small grains research. I have the same guilt as the guy that created the Kuerig.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Mar 27, 2019 8:18:37 GMT -6
Sounds like a whiny fucker that doesn't want to put in the work to make hunting better.....
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Post by biglakebass on Mar 27, 2019 8:23:33 GMT -6
If what he claims is at all true, you should have 40 dpsm..... All the work people do, does very little in vast majority of cases to change things at any significant level.
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Post by Catscratch on Mar 27, 2019 8:33:49 GMT -6
Hunting is certainly very different than it was when I was young. "Just deer farms without a fence"? I don't know but I would speculate that us habitat guys actually do more work on an annual basis than most high fence farms. It does change how deer move and behave, but not as much as bait piles do. I believe that most hunters would rather have a neighbor that plots for deer than baits for deer. With that said deer are free to move where ever they please without a fence holding them in regardless of habitat manipulation, or piles of pumpkins on the ground.
To be honest, I enjoy plotting and habitat work more than I do killing deer. Therefor I might not be much of a hunter anymore and just someone who has shifted a different direction. I do not hunt my plots, does this allow me to be both a hunter and a plotter separately and at the same time? If I could afford a high fence... I would put one up and gladly feed deer protein all year long. Are my lines blurred?
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Post by jbird on Mar 27, 2019 8:47:11 GMT -6
I think there is a VERY big difference between a deer hunter and a habitat manager. Many deer hunters are NOT habitat managers, for one reason or another. As such, I can see a bit of "hostility" of hunters towards those of us that do manage the land and manipulate it to favor our desires. Are we a "deer farm without a fence"? No. The deer are free to come and go as they wish. Not much "free range" "farming" going on any more these days!
Another difference I see is that most habitat managers are interested in giving back to the habitat/environment. Many hunters I know are simply a consumer of the resource. Only thru their tax dollars are they actually contributing or giving back to the environment. I would hate to guess how much money I add to the economy by choice in doing my habitat work.
What I also see is that many habitat managers own or have control over the land they hunt...not all the hunters have that option...for one reason or another. This I think is where the industry cites hunting becoming a rich mans sport. I don't agree with that entirely because we CHOOSE to own the land...we make sacrifices in other areas to make that happen. So to me...it's a matter of the individuals priorities. I don't live in a fancy neighborhood in a fancy house with a driveway full of BMW's and ski boats and the like, or take fancy vacations. Nope...owning land isn't easy...but you can't have your cake and eat it too!
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Post by sd51555 on Mar 27, 2019 9:51:04 GMT -6
It caught me off guard. I had always expected this rift to develop at some point. I'm very good friends with the guy, and we're not at odds with one another at all. But I think this division is real and will soon be on the DNR's radar to exploit as they continue the snuffing out of wild deer.
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Post by Catscratch on Mar 27, 2019 10:01:51 GMT -6
The next division is land owners vs non-land owners. With horn porn, leasing, outfitting, etc becoming so prevalent the freedom to hunt for free is gone. Landowners will be resented for their ability do whatever they want, while non-landowners will be left searching for something to hunt that isn't junk.
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Post by nhmountains on Mar 27, 2019 10:17:17 GMT -6
The next division is land owners vs non-land owners. With horn porn, leasing, outfitting, etc becoming so prevalent the freedom to hunt for free is gone. Non-landowners will be resented for their ability do whatever they want, while non-land owners will be left searching for something to hunt that isn't junk. That’s what hunting is like here in the northeast. Non landowner hunters do not like landowners who post their land. There’s 900,000 acres of national forest in NH available to hunt but, some get really worked up. |
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Post by jbird on Mar 27, 2019 10:22:20 GMT -6
The next division is land owners vs non-land owners. With horn porn, leasing, outfitting, etc becoming so prevalent the freedom to hunt for free is gone. Non-landowners will be resented for their ability do whatever they want, while non-land owners will be left searching for something to hunt that isn't junk. I ain't no English major....but...I think you mean Landowners will be resented... "Non-landowners will be resented for their ability do whatever they want, while non-land owners will be left searching for something to hunt that isn't junk." |
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Post by jbird on Mar 27, 2019 10:43:58 GMT -6
You better be in pretty good standing with the landowner in my area if you want access to private ground. Thing here is that only 5% of the land in the state is public. Leasing is growing and will continue to grow...I see groups of 4 or 5 guys lock up land that previously support 10 or more hunters. I see a lot o more of out of state or out of area hunters leasing ground as well....displacing locals.
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Post by Catscratch on Mar 27, 2019 10:57:07 GMT -6
You better be in pretty good standing with the landowner in my area if you want access to private ground. Thing here is that only 5% of the land in the state is public. Leasing is growing and will continue to grow...I see groups of 4 or 5 guys lock up land that previously support 10 or more hunters. I see a lot o more of out of state or out of area hunters leasing ground as well....displacing locals. NR displacing locals has been a huge deal in KS lately. Very few kids taking up hunting anymore. What used to be a family event (opening day) involving grandpa, dad, kids, cousins, and all the ladies (drinking and cooking at one of the houses) almost doesn't exist anymore. A lot of tradition has been lost in a short amount of time. I fixed my previous post!  |
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Post by chummer16 on Mar 27, 2019 11:09:51 GMT -6
Yup, landowners are assholes. I have 10’s of thousands of acres of state land within 20 minutes of me. Put up posted signs, or tell a guy he can’t hunt there anymore and you are a prick. Guy told me it wasn’t fair since he hunted there for thirty years. I told him how lucky he was to have a free place to hunt for 30 years. I have thousands invested in plots and apples all in the hope of seeing more deer. I don’t want some smelly asshole fucking that up. If that makes me a deer farm so be it. I would be the worlds worst deer farm since I still only see 10 deer in 6 weeks of hunting.
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Post by nhmountains on Mar 27, 2019 11:38:27 GMT -6
You better be in pretty good standing with the landowner in my area if you want access to private ground. Thing here is that only 5% of the land in the state is public. Leasing is growing and will continue to grow...I see groups of 4 or 5 guys lock up land that previously support 10 or more hunters. I see a lot o more of out of state or out of area hunters leasing ground as well....displacing locals. NR displacing locals has been a huge deal in KS lately. Very few kids taking up hunting anymore. What used to be a family event (opening day) involving grandpa, dad, kids, cousins, and all the ladies (drinking and cooking at one of the houses) almost doesn't exist anymore. A lot of tradition has been lost in a short amount of time. I fixed my previous post! You must remember when Kansas didn’t allow non resident hunting. I remember one of the major league pitchers being happy he was traded to KC so he could get residency and deer hunt there. |
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Post by batman on Mar 27, 2019 11:52:00 GMT -6
I love it when guys 'lose their land to hunt' because someone who sees value pays the landowner for the right.
I like calling them socialists. Really pisses them off.
And habitat work is so far from a high fence its crazy talk. The fence allows you to manage. Habitat work often barely moves the needle.
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Post by Catscratch on Mar 27, 2019 12:10:05 GMT -6
Batman - which is more work; high fence or free range habitat work?
nh - I grew up hunting KS long before they opened the boarders to NR. It's been a big change for sure, completely changed the hunting culture here. Of course a lot of that blame is on hunting shows, marketing, and the internet.
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