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Post by smsmith on Apr 19, 2024 20:10:06 GMT -6
Last year I had 4 out of 5 apple plugs put on 5'+ of growth. This year, they all died. I hope next year isn't another drought year. I know a lot of people say not to use chips for apples because of voles but, I know they help with drought and less winter kill. I’m going to be mulching spruce, pine, oaks, chestnuts, persimmons and may try a few crabs. I’m still not going to mulch the main orchard trees. I'll never know the answer, but I'd bet that I would have lost all of those plugs last year with chip mulch too. When it doesn't rain an inch from early June until mid August, you're pretty much doomed with new plantings on light soil. The wild apple plugs I lost year were all on light, sandy soil. They each got a small amount of watersorb, and each had 3x4' lumite mats. A 3-4" layer of wood chips may have saved some of them, but I have my doubts. The soil where they were planted was some of the lightest I've got here. I'll be planting some more in those same spots this year. If they all died this year, I won't try again. As far as winter kill and mulch goes, I'd need to see some proof.
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 19, 2024 20:44:54 GMT -6
My soil is pretty sandy in many areas, so I mulch around my apple trees to build up the soil. I put a few truckloads of wood chips from the power company, ashes and charcoals from wood fires, leaves and grass clippings from my yard and dead raccoons and deer skeletons around my trees. I’ve been doing this for about 7 years in one location and it has built up 6” of really nice topsoil by the trees and they seem to have less drought stress than before. The mulch helps, but it is also possible the tree roots are simply getting deeper into the soil to reach more water.
I did have one section that was mulched the same way, but it had even sandier soil with full afternoon sun. No mulching could fix that area, so I gave up planting trees there.
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Post by nhmountains on Apr 19, 2024 22:32:09 GMT -6
My soil is pretty sandy in many areas, so I mulch around my apple trees to build up the soil. I put a few truckloads of wood chips from the power company, ashes and charcoals from wood fires, leaves and grass clippings from my yard and dead raccoons and deer skeletons around my trees. I’ve been doing this for about 7 years in one location and it has built up 6” of really nice topsoil by the trees and they seem to have less drought stress than before. The mulch helps, but it is also possible the tree roots are simply getting deeper into the soil to reach more water. I did have one section that was mulched the same way, but it had even sandier soil with full afternoon sun. No mulching could fix that area, so I gave up planting trees there. On that sandy area with mulch did you leave wood chips to rot down? If so how do they look now? I’ve been using wood chips the last couple years for my wife’s flower gardens. When I dig into them after two years the soil is alive with the fungi and worms. Michael Philips was really into that fungi in the soil of his apple trees. The worm castings provide fertilizer and the fungi seem to do good things for plants.
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 20, 2024 5:02:23 GMT -6
Last year I had 4 out of 5 apple plugs put on 5'+ of growth. This year, they all died. I hope next year isn't another drought year. I know a lot of people say not to use chips for apples because of voles but, I know they help with drought and less winter kill. I’m going to be mulching spruce, pine, oaks, chestnuts, persimmons and may try a few crabs. I’m still not going to mulch the main orchard trees. Do you use screen around the apples if you mulch?
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Post by nhmountains on Apr 20, 2024 5:29:22 GMT -6
I know a lot of people say not to use chips for apples because of voles but, I know they help with drought and less winter kill. I’m going to be mulching spruce, pine, oaks, chestnuts, persimmons and may try a few crabs. I’m still not going to mulch the main orchard trees. Do you use screen around the apples if you mulch? Definitely. I’d still be worried the voles dig deeper and get to the surrounding roots underground. I’ve never used any of the fabric cloth due to that reason.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 20, 2024 6:37:16 GMT -6
My soil is pretty sandy in many areas, so I mulch around my apple trees to build up the soil. I put a few truckloads of wood chips from the power company, ashes and charcoals from wood fires, leaves and grass clippings from my yard and dead raccoons and deer skeletons around my trees. I’ve been doing this for about 7 years in one location and it has built up 6” of really nice topsoil by the trees and they seem to have less drought stress than before. The mulch helps, but it is also possible the tree roots are simply getting deeper into the soil to reach more water. I did have one section that was mulched the same way, but it had even sandier soil with full afternoon sun. No mulching could fix that area, so I gave up planting trees there. I'm trying this same sandy spot on my place again this year. I'll add a bunch more watersorb to each planting hole, but if they don't make it again this year I won't plant there again. I wish I could go look at the apple trees I planted at my folks' old place. That was pretty much beach sand. I did add a bunch of composted manure to each planting hole, and a layer of cardboard with lumite on top. I'd like to think they're doing well, but who knows
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 20, 2024 7:14:19 GMT -6
My soil is pretty sandy in many areas, so I mulch around my apple trees to build up the soil. I put a few truckloads of wood chips from the power company, ashes and charcoals from wood fires, leaves and grass clippings from my yard and dead raccoons and deer skeletons around my trees. I’ve been doing this for about 7 years in one location and it has built up 6” of really nice topsoil by the trees and they seem to have less drought stress than before. The mulch helps, but it is also possible the tree roots are simply getting deeper into the soil to reach more water. I did have one section that was mulched the same way, but it had even sandier soil with full afternoon sun. No mulching could fix that area, so I gave up planting trees there. I'm trying this same sandy spot on my place again this year. I'll add a bunch more watersorb to each planting hole, but if they don't make it again this year I won't plant there again. I wish I could go look at the apple trees I planted at my folks' old place. That was pretty much beach sand. I did add a bunch of composted manure to each planting hole, and a layer of cardboard with lumite on top. I'd like to think they're doing well, but who knows I remember us comparing observations way back when. How many years have we been electronic friends? QDMA forum days for sure.
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Post by nhmountains on Apr 20, 2024 7:24:58 GMT -6
How’s Crazy Ed’s trees doing in the sands of Wisconsin now? I know he put a ton of effort and care into each and every tree to give them a chance.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 20, 2024 7:25:15 GMT -6
I'm trying this same sandy spot on my place again this year. I'll add a bunch more watersorb to each planting hole, but if they don't make it again this year I won't plant there again. I wish I could go look at the apple trees I planted at my folks' old place. That was pretty much beach sand. I did add a bunch of composted manure to each planting hole, and a layer of cardboard with lumite on top. I'd like to think they're doing well, but who knows I remember us comparing observations way back when. How many years have we been electronic friends? QDMA forum days for sure. A long time. I don't know if Crazy Ed even knows/remembers...but the planting system he uses on his beach sand was my system at my folks' place. I remember when he showed up at the Q looking for advice on planting fruit trees. He took my advice/planting method and ran wild with it on a much larger scale. Kind of like how advice from Ben Hooper became "common knowledge". Back when Ben was around and sharing info it was cutting edge stuff. Now, guys on the interwebs share what he taught as their own ideas.
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Post by nhmountains on Apr 20, 2024 7:59:24 GMT -6
I remember us comparing observations way back when. How many years have we been electronic friends? QDMA forum days for sure. A long time. I don't know if Crazy Ed even knows/remembers...but the planting system he uses on his beach sand was my system at my folks' place. I remember when he showed up at the Q looking for advice on planting fruit trees. He took my advice/planting method and ran wild with it on a much larger scale. Kind of like how advice from Ben Hooper became "common knowledge". Back when Ben was around and sharing info it was cutting edge stuff. Now, guys on the interwebs share what he taught as their own ideas. Time flies Stu. Was that 20 years ago? I was up near Belfast Maine last year. I was only about 20 minutes from Ben. Didn’t realize it. You’ve given a ton of habitat advice over the years that you don’t get enough recognition for. I know most all of my knowledge has come from your mentoring. Well everything but, chestnuts. lol.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 20, 2024 10:00:06 GMT -6
A long time. I don't know if Crazy Ed even knows/remembers...but the planting system he uses on his beach sand was my system at my folks' place. I remember when he showed up at the Q looking for advice on planting fruit trees. He took my advice/planting method and ran wild with it on a much larger scale. Kind of like how advice from Ben Hooper became "common knowledge". Back when Ben was around and sharing info it was cutting edge stuff. Now, guys on the interwebs share what he taught as their own ideas. Time flies Stu. Was that 20 years ago? I was up near Belfast Maine last year. I was only about 20 minutes from Ben. Didn’t realize it. You’ve given a ton of habitat advice over the years that you don’t get enough recognition for. I know most all of my knowledge has come from your mentoring. Well everything but, chestnuts. lol. I don't remember exactly when C.E. showed up on the Q forums. I'd guess sometime around '06-'08. I was within an hour or less of Ben back in 2010 when my late wife and I went to Maine. He was out of the country at the time as I recall. I don't know if he still works on offshore drilling engineering or not, but I do recall he was somehow involved with the Deepwater Horizon deal. I don't care much about "habitat recognition" anymore. I'm happy to share what I know, or what I think I know. I could swear I was the first guy to share the idea of using concrete mesh instead of 2"x4" welded wire for apple cages...at least I know I hadn't seen the idea on the Q or any other habitat internet sites. I'm sure somebody had come up with the idea before me, but it felt "novel" to me when I shared it. I remember looking at the price of 2x4" wire at Menard's and then saw the rolls of concrete mesh for about half the price. Back then saving some money here and there on non-essential things was quite a bit more important than it is now (I'm still cheap though). As far as chestnuts go....good luck with them I did screw around them with them for a number of years. I recall buying 20 lbs. of bulk chestnut seed from somewhere in IL (Pike County?) at one point. I grew out a bunch and sold probably half to other guys at my cost. I had all the growing cells/trays/bags/etc. The last I knew, every damn chestnut I planted was dead. I suppose some may have come back from the roots at some point. I think WI and definitely MN are just too far out of the native range for them to ever amount to much. I could of course be wrong
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 20, 2024 11:17:06 GMT -6
I learned a lot from Stu. Thanks.
Still my go to person for apple knowledge.
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Post by nhmountains on Apr 20, 2024 17:34:44 GMT -6
Well I ran some numbers for cages. Concrete wire is now more expensive. A 150’ 5’ concrete is now $239. A 100’ roll of 5’ 2x4 wire is $150. A 100’ 6’ roll of 2x4 wire is $165. I did 4’ diameter cages with concrete so cages are about $20 a cage. How big would you suggest with the welded wire. 3’ would give me 11 cages so $15+/- a cage. I’ll go with 2 stakes per cage. I used to use 10’ emt. Cut in half for 2 stakes. That’s $6.50 or 10% if I purchase 25.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 20, 2024 17:46:29 GMT -6
I learned a lot from Stu. Thanks. Still my go to person for apple knowledge. We've learned a lot from each other. Thank you
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 20, 2024 20:29:03 GMT -6
My soil is pretty sandy in many areas, so I mulch around my apple trees to build up the soil. I put a few truckloads of wood chips from the power company, ashes and charcoals from wood fires, leaves and grass clippings from my yard and dead raccoons and deer skeletons around my trees. I’ve been doing this for about 7 years in one location and it has built up 6” of really nice topsoil by the trees and they seem to have less drought stress than before. The mulch helps, but it is also possible the tree roots are simply getting deeper into the soil to reach more water. I did have one section that was mulched the same way, but it had even sandier soil with full afternoon sun. No mulching could fix that area, so I gave up planting trees there. On that sandy area with mulch did you leave wood chips to rot down? If so how do they look now? I’ve been using wood chips the last couple years for my wife’s flower gardens. When I dig into them after two years the soil is alive with the fungi and worms. Michael Philips was really into that fungi in the soil of his apple trees. The worm castings provide fertilizer and the fungi seem to do good things for plants. I let the chips rot down for a year before I spread them. The Michael Phillips book is where I got the idea to use mulches for apple trees.
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