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Post by badgerfowl on May 24, 2023 9:03:32 GMT -6
I've seen no diminishable hunting quality in WI due to crossbows.
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Post by caveman on May 24, 2023 9:31:34 GMT -6
Hoping that this change causes the archery season to be closed the week before rifle season. Give the deer a break before the guns come out. The MN DNR "giving the deer a break"? that'd be something. And another reason to be unhappy with crossbows for all. As long as we give everyone a tag for the gun season during the rut, as far as deer quality is concerned, everything else is pissing in a river. It makes no difference overall. A dead deer is a dead deer.
This gives another opportunity for those that don't enjoy gun season, but they would still hunt it and the deer would still be dead either way. Not many are just going to go hunting now because they suddenly can use a crossbow.
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windgypsy
Full Member
Posts: 126
Likes: 162
Location: Kanabec, Wright, and Itasca Counties, MN
Zone: 4A / 3B
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Post by windgypsy on May 24, 2023 10:00:47 GMT -6
The MN DNR "giving the deer a break"? that'd be something. And another reason to be unhappy with crossbows for all. As long as we give everyone a tag for the gun season during the rut, as far as deer quality is concerned, everything else is pissing in a river. It makes no difference overall. A dead deer is a dead deer.
This gives another opportunity for those that don't enjoy gun season, but they would still hunt it and the deer would still be dead either way. Not many are just going to go hunting now because they suddenly can use a crossbow.
I won't pretend that crossbows will universally be a light switch that makes hunting worse across the board or deny in specific cases that it may inadvertently even improve hunting. But for a state that already has poorer hunting quality than all of the states that neighbor it, I wont support taking steps likely to further decrease the quality of hunting. There is more to quality of hunting than just how many deer are killed, pressure makes a big difference too. Regulations that result in more people in the woods earlier in the season, with more effective weapons, seem more likely to decrease the quality of hunting than improve it to me. Only arguments i can see otherwise is more pressure prior to the rut could educate more deer before they get stupid or push more deer into sanctuaries where they are unpressured.
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Post by caveman on May 24, 2023 13:35:57 GMT -6
As long as we give everyone a tag for the gun season during the rut, as far as deer quality is concerned, everything else is pissing in a river. It makes no difference overall. A dead deer is a dead deer.
This gives another opportunity for those that don't enjoy gun season, but they would still hunt it and the deer would still be dead either way. Not many are just going to go hunting now because they suddenly can use a crossbow.
I won't pretend that crossbows will universally be a light switch that makes hunting worse across the board or deny in specific cases that it may inadvertently even improve hunting. But for a state that already has poorer hunting quality than all of the states that neighbor it, I wont support taking steps likely to further decrease the quality of hunting. There is more to quality of hunting than just how many deer are killed, pressure makes a big difference too. Regulations that result in more people in the woods earlier in the season, with more effective weapons, seem more likely to decrease the quality of hunting than improve it to me. Only arguments i can see otherwise is more pressure prior to the rut could educate more deer before they get stupid or push more deer into sanctuaries where they are unpressured. Might as well make lemonade out of lemons.
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Post by smsmith on May 24, 2023 14:21:49 GMT -6
I gave up on attempting to make deer hunting in MN better on any kind of "scale" a number of years ago. It isn't going to happen...ever.
Make it better on my place and maybe in my neighborhood. That's all a guy can do. Kill a buck with a bow, kill a buck with a crossbow, kill a buck with a firearm. The result is the same. Deer kill in MN has been down for years. I bet it will be down again this year.
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Post by biglakebass on May 24, 2023 14:26:20 GMT -6
I was on the MDHA site the other day just poking around.
The executive board has their stances listed....
Deer Harvest MDHA seeks a state wide harvest goal of 225,000
No notes on how to achieve that.....
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Post by smsmith on May 24, 2023 14:32:21 GMT -6
I was on the MDHA site the other day just poking around. The executive board has their stances listed.... Deer Harvest MDHA seeks a state wide harvest goal of 225,000 No notes on how to achieve that..... As I recall, the MNDNR agreed to go along with the MDHA's statewide harvest goal. That came out of the MNDNR audit that got performed largely thanks to MDDI, MBI, and Brooks. As you said, there was never any work done towards how said goal was to be achieved. All just smoke and mirrors. Probably at least partly because MDHA was being run by an ex MNDR guy at that time.
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Post by Bwoods11 on May 24, 2023 14:58:07 GMT -6
I am trying to think back on new regulations, seasons, changes that the Minnesota DNR or legislature has made since 2000. I cannot think of one regulation or season adjustment, that would benefit deer hunting or deer survival?
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Post by smsmith on May 24, 2023 15:08:51 GMT -6
I am trying to think back on new regulations, seasons, changes that the Minnesota DNR or legislature has made since 2000. I cannot think of one regulation or season adjustment, that would benefit deer hunting or deer survival? For one year they put my unit in Hunter's Choice (now termed Either-Sex) instead of Managed (now called two deer limit). Then they took us to Intensive (now called 3 deer limit). There was a one year "reprieve"....which of course was followed by the least restrictive management structure available outside of the CWD management designation. That wasn't enough though, they had to add Early Antlerless too. I'd guess this unit will be under CWD designation soon (5 deer limit). Anybody waiting for something considered positive for the growth of the deer herd or increased numbers of older age class bucks in MN is kidding themselves IMO. Those things will happen here about the same time a truly conservative Republican gets elected to the Goobernor's office.
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Post by Sandbur on May 24, 2023 17:30:11 GMT -6
With CWD continuing to spread and pop up in new areas,the state does not want more deer in most areas and definitely does not want more older deer.
DNR rhetoric is that they want to keep as much of our soils as possible free of prions until a better way of disease control is found. It makes some sense to me, but also seems like Cwd will be in all of our areas very soon.
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Post by smsmith on May 24, 2023 18:15:53 GMT -6
MNDNR is afraid of the deer herd getting out of control in urban/suburban areas.
Marrett Grund (remember him?) and some biologist from the then QDMA (it wasn't Kip Adams, it was a younger guy) co-authored a paper/study on deer population growth in metropolitan/suburban areas a number of years ago. I haven't dug for that paper since back in the MDDI days, and I'm not going to do it now. IIRC, they "found" that hunting could not keep deer numbers under control in such areas and that deer herds should be kept suppressed for as long as possible.
Since much of eastern and central MN will be considered suburbia in the relatively near future the MNDNR will do whatever they can to ensure the deer herd stays as small as possible while still keeping enough hunters interested that they won't quit hunting.
Much of SW and W MN will never have the cover necessary for the deer herd to "get out of control"
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Post by Bwoods11 on May 24, 2023 20:28:28 GMT -6
If the deer herd didn’t take a beating this year (winter) it probably never will! I think the DNR listens more to farmers, metro hobby farmers, etc..
Like you said Stu, they don’t want all that many deer. They think because they see 16 deer at the bird feeder, that’s way too many . But that could be deer coming from a mile away .
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Post by biglakebass on May 24, 2023 20:29:47 GMT -6
If the deer herd didn’t take a beating this year (winter) it probably never will! I think the DNR listens more to farmers, metro hobby farmers, etc.. Like you said Stu, they don’t want all that many deer. They think because they see 16 deer at the bird feeder, that’s way too many . But that could be deer coming from a mile away . The DNR wouldnt want to see my pics from this winter feeding deer in my backyard....
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Post by caveman on May 24, 2023 20:37:33 GMT -6
This city talk has me reconsidering buying a crossbow. Some quick park hunts with the Metro Bowhunters Resource Base could help put some venison in the freezer and make gun season more relaxing. Was never good enough with a bow to consider joining before.
Special Announcements Effective May 25th, 2023: The use of a crossbow in any and all MBRB special hunts is limited to those who are 60 years of age and older or for those who have a medically documented physical disability which precludes them from using traditional archery equipment or a compound bow. Hunters must also hunt from an elevated stand.
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Guess not. Appears they are not in favor of the new crossbow law change.
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Post by smsmith on May 25, 2023 7:01:29 GMT -6
If the deer herd didn’t take a beating this year (winter) it probably never will! I think the DNR listens more to farmers, metro hobby farmers, etc.. Like you said Stu, they don’t want all that many deer. They think because they see 16 deer at the bird feeder, that’s way too many . But that could be deer coming from a mile away . Pretty much every interest group besides hunters wants fewer deer. Lyme disease transmission/spread, vehicle/car crashes, lack of oak/maple/other forest re-generation (just had my 2c plan re-done, forester could find very little oak/maple re-gen), ag depredation, etc. etc. Hunters are a small minority group. Mature buck hunters are even a smaller minority. Yep, we pay an awful lot of DNR salaries....but nobody really cares (besides us).
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