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Post by Sandbur on Feb 20, 2022 8:29:45 GMT -6
Our MDHA chapter President had an interesting perspective that none have discussed. He said that with crossbow, rifle, or shotgun, an adult can target it in and tell a youth to go shoot a deer.
He favored archery season as is. Kids needed to work at it to kill a deer. They had to practice and get to know their equipment. He didn’t favor near instant success like youth have come to expect nowadays.
Learning your equipment and it’s use is part of the game.
This doesn’t favor recruitment, but might weed out those who are not dedicated.
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Post by kooch on Feb 20, 2022 9:01:09 GMT -6
Crossbows don't make deer magically appear. If the deer aren't there to be harvested the kill isn't going to go up. People are already shooting everything they can, and crossbows don't have the range of a modern slug or modern muzzy used in regular season, so there will not be any increase on what they can shoot. Who is going to kill the increases number of deer? The slug hunter that already is successful but wants more time afield doesn't increase the kill by picking up a crossbow. The unsuccessful archery hunter with a shitty place to hunt and no scent control isn't going to increase the kill by picking up a crossbow.
I counter with the zone 1 rifle hunter who can’t get a doe tag and wants venison for his family. He will pick up a crossbow and shoot a doe in areas where doe kill needs to be curtailed. It will take the state time to adjust the amount of doe tags or shorten seasons in these areas. They don’t respond very fast, if at all.There's some truth here. When I was more bloodthirsty (and wanted more venison for the freezer than I do now) I would hunt for a buck in zone 1, then head to other zones and chase down an antlerless deer or two.
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Post by caveman on Feb 20, 2022 10:45:30 GMT -6
Crossbows don't make deer magically appear. If the deer aren't there to be harvested the kill isn't going to go up. People are already shooting everything they can, and crossbows don't have the range of a modern slug or modern muzzy used in regular season, so there will not be any increase on what they can shoot. Who is going to kill the increases number of deer? The slug hunter that already is successful but wants more time afield doesn't increase the kill by picking up a crossbow. The unsuccessful archery hunter with a shitty place to hunt and no scent control isn't going to increase the kill by picking up a crossbow.
I counter with the zone 1 rifle hunter who can’t get a doe tag and wants venison for his family. He will pick up a crossbow and shoot a doe in areas where doe kill needs to be curtailed. It will take the state time to adjust the amount of doe tags or shorten seasons in these areas. They don’t respond very fast, if at all. Good point. That happened many years back in farm country when everyone got a doe tag in muzzy season for one year. The doe lottery not applying to all hunters is something that could be changed though as it was added to muzzy hunters and they harvest the fewest deer.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Feb 20, 2022 16:58:58 GMT -6
I don’t what else to say but we have too many hunters and too many long seasons in Minnesota already. If it happens I guess it’s more like whatever ? It will speed my exit out of here as a deer hunter. I’m fortunate to have other options. The guy that hunts public in MN is stuck with the battle.
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Post by Sandbur on Feb 20, 2022 17:02:49 GMT -6
I think it will eventually pass.
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Post by caveman on Feb 20, 2022 18:08:16 GMT -6
I don’t what else to say but we have too many hunters and too many long seasons in Minnesota already. If it happens I guess it’s more like whatever ? It will speed my exit out of here as a deer hunter. I’m fortunate to have other options. The guy that hunts public in MN is stuck with the battle.This guy that hunts public would have already quit deer hunting if not for the public. Small tracts of private property and our unlimited hunter regulations can put a lot of hunters in a small area. Large tracts of public a guy can work to get away from the crowds.
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Post by badgerfowl on Feb 20, 2022 19:55:08 GMT -6
I don’t what else to say but we have too many hunters and too many long seasons in Minnesota already. If it happens I guess it’s more like whatever ? It will speed my exit out of here as a deer hunter. I’m fortunate to have other options. The guy that hunts public in MN is stuck with the battle. My guess is gun season during the rut is probably the biggest deterrent to what you are wanting, older bucks. Problem is not every one wants the same thing. I want older bucks too but not every neighbor does. Only thing you can do is find the right neighborhood. We upgraded going from the river bottoms to the hills but it could be better and is in different areas.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Feb 20, 2022 20:15:41 GMT -6
I don’t what else to say but we have too many hunters and too many long seasons in Minnesota already. If it happens I guess it’s more like whatever ? It will speed my exit out of here as a deer hunter. I’m fortunate to have other options. The guy that hunts public in MN is stuck with the battle.This guy that hunts public would have already quit deer hunting if not for the public. Small tracts of private property and our unlimited hunter regulations can put a lot of hunters in a small area. Large tracts of public a guy can work to get away from the crowds. I’m a big advocate for public hunting despite not using it much . I’ve been involved in over 800 acres of purchases by Pheasants Forever and other organizations. I know how important it is to many hunters. My only concern is that they don’t manage it very well—(the DNR)🤕 I
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Post by kooch on Feb 20, 2022 20:25:38 GMT -6
MN has a TON of public land available for hunting. Caveman has it right. If a guy wants to work a little bit for it, like he is willing to do, there is a lot of solitude to be discovered in the swamps up North.
There may be no deer. But lots of solitude. 😀
His whole camping in an insulated fishing pop up is an inspiration.
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Post by caveman on Feb 20, 2022 21:02:46 GMT -6
MN has a TON of public land available for hunting. Caveman has it right. If a guy wants to work a little bit for it, like he is willing to do, there is a lot of solitude to be discovered in the swamps up North. There may be no deer. But lots of solitude. 😀 His whole camping in an insulated fishing pop up is an inspiration. Thanks and all, but the goal next year is to upgrade the hunting shack to an IceCastle or similar. Getting old. Sucks.
As far as public land being managed poorly by the DNR, besides groups like this, most private land owners manage worse by packing too many hunters onto their land, shooting every deer they can, farm every inch possible, mow 5 acres right to the lakeshore, etc.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Feb 20, 2022 21:36:55 GMT -6
I think the public land you are hunting up north is far different than the public hunting land in my area (west central MN). We have public that gets grazed by cows until September. There’s hardly any wildlife on it.
We do have some good public, but most of it is poor to average. The best public is swamp/cattails/Willows/cane grass. It holds deer and pheasants and hunters have a hard time walking it.
There were some nice shelter belts in my area on public, but gone now …they cut em down ? 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by caveman on Feb 21, 2022 0:44:23 GMT -6
I split public hunting areas into size categories as that is the most important thing IMO. The small ones, 160 acres or less, are just overrun trampled fields. The medium ones, 160-1000 acres, are hit and miss with some overlooked spots and many worthless overrun areas. The big ones, 1000+ acres, are where there is a chance to find decent hunting on a regular basis. Trees and grasslands and swamps and hills are important, none as much as size. And those big tracts are more often found up north.
(My buck this year, and most years, was from south of St. Cloud, not up north hunting by any means.)
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Post by Bwoods11 on Feb 21, 2022 9:24:27 GMT -6
Congrats on your buck. There are a few Nature Conservancy parcels in Pope County that are big, and they do allow hunting on some of them. I have heard they are not too bad.
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Post by Catscratch on Feb 21, 2022 10:09:18 GMT -6
I don’t what else to say but we have too many hunters and too many long seasons in Minnesota already. If it happens I guess it’s more like whatever ? It will speed my exit out of here as a deer hunter. I’m fortunate to have other options. The guy that hunts public in MN is stuck with the battle. My guess is gun season during the rut is probably the biggest deterrent to what you are wanting, older bucks. Problem is not every one wants the same thing. I want older bucks too but not every neighbor does. Only thing you can do is find the right neighborhood. We upgraded going from the river bottoms to the hills but it could be better and is in different areas. ^^^ This is true in my opinion. The second biggest deterrent is outfitters putting clients on rutting bucks with crossbows week after week, year after year. I can tell you that a crossbow in my hands has no range advantages over my compound. For every other category they split. With that said I've been practicing with a compound for 30+ years. The difference in me hunting the rut with a compound or crossbow is insignificant, the difference between someone who hasn't spent a lifetime practicing with a vert bow is very significant.
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Post by terrifictom on Feb 21, 2022 11:03:53 GMT -6
My guess is gun season during the rut is probably the biggest deterrent to what you are wanting, older bucks. Problem is not every one wants the same thing. I want older bucks too but not every neighbor does. Only thing you can do is find the right neighborhood. We upgraded going from the river bottoms to the hills but it could be better and is in different areas. ^^^ This is true in my opinion. The second biggest deterrent is outfitters putting clients on rutting bucks with crossbows week after week, year after year. I can tell you that a crossbow in my hands has no range advantages over my compound. For every other category they split. With that said I've been practicing with a compound for 30+ years. The difference in me hunting the rut with a compound or crossbow is insignificant, the difference between someone who hasn't spent a lifetime practicing with a vert bow is very significant. It isn't the crossbows being allowed fault, it is the greedy outfitters fault. In Wisconsin there are very few bow season outfitters except in Buffalo county, and a few counties in the Western part of the state. So maybe instead of the effort to not allow crossbows, it should be directed at Outfitters who over harvest. Same thing in Minnesota from what I am reading it isn't the crossbows fault it is the group hunting that is being abused causing over harvest. Sort of like saying that a gun/weapon is the problem for shootings when we all know it is the person pulling the trigger. But from what I am reading in this thread, some of you would put the blame on the gun/weapon not the shooter.
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