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Post by Bwoods11 on Feb 21, 2022 11:20:10 GMT -6
What else can you say though, crossbows do not HELP. They will hurt the amount of deer that will survive, especially bucks. Rather than make excuses for crossbows, list one reason why... if we allow crossbows we will have more mature bucks the following year?
Also will we have more hunters or fewer hunters to compete with on public land? Will there be more or less bucks shot prior to gun season? Seems simple to me.
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Post by Catscratch on Feb 21, 2022 11:21:46 GMT -6
^^^ This is true in my opinion. The second biggest deterrent is outfitters putting clients on rutting bucks with crossbows week after week, year after year. I can tell you that a crossbow in my hands has no range advantages over my compound. For every other category they split. With that said I've been practicing with a compound for 30+ years. The difference in me hunting the rut with a compound or crossbow is insignificant, the difference between someone who hasn't spent a lifetime practicing with a vert bow is very significant. It isn't the crossbows being allowed fault, it is the greedy outfitters fault. In Wisconsin there are very few bow season outfitters except in Buffalo county, and a few counties in the Western part of the state. So maybe instead of the effort to not allow crossbows, it should be directed at Outfitters who over harvest. Same thing in Minnesota from what I am reading it isn't the crossbows fault it is the group hunting that is being abused causing over harvest. Sort of like saying that a gun/weapon is the problem for shootings when we all know it is the person pulling the trigger. But from what I am reading in this thread, some of you would put the blame on the gun/weapon not the shooter. I agree that the outfitters are hammering the deer and I agree that they need tighter regulations (at least here anyway). But, with that said I would not want rifles to replace archery for the same time slot. We have a 14 day rifle season that is mostly after the rut (December). Allowing rifles for the duration of November would be very detrimental to our older age class buck population. So to me the weapon allowed does make a difference, but I'm not discounting the fact that sometimes things are abused. Without the crossbow inclusion the outfitters would have far fewer customers during that time slot. I believe the majority of those guys would just wait until rifle season for their guided hunt.
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Post by caveman on Feb 21, 2022 11:42:19 GMT -6
What else can you say though, crossbows do not HELP. They will hurt the amount of deer that will survive, especially bucks. Rather than make excuses for crossbows, list one reason why... if we allow crossbows we will have more mature bucks the following year? Also will we have more hunters or fewer hunters to compete with on public land? Will there be more or less bucks shot prior to gun season? Seems simple to me. If we don't allow crossbows will we have less mature bucks the following year?
If we don't have an archery season at all will we have more mature bucks the following year?
It's all pissing in a river.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Feb 21, 2022 13:44:39 GMT -6
If you want a crossbow tag, I would guess you could tell your doctor it is difficult to pull my bow back and he could sign whatever is needed to get you the tag? Otherwise you can buy a Wisconsin tag and hunt over there?
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Post by caveman on Feb 21, 2022 14:13:50 GMT -6
Just hunt in regular season when the crossbows are allowed.
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Post by badgerfowl on Feb 21, 2022 15:01:31 GMT -6
Aren't you only allowed one buck per year in Minnesota? Not sure I understand the consternation over cross bows if that's the case. And this is from a non cross bow user.
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Post by benmnwi on Feb 21, 2022 15:50:27 GMT -6
In the CWD areas (about 1/4 of the state) you are allowed one buck with bow, one with gun and one with muzzleloader, so it would increase buck harvest in those areas. It may have a lesser impact in other areas.
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Post by caveman on Feb 21, 2022 15:50:53 GMT -6
Aren't you only allowed one buck per year in Minnesota? Not sure I understand the consternation over cross bows if that's the case. And this is from a non cross bow user. Yes, or most of it is one buck, not sure how the CWD areas work.
I don't understand it either. Best I have heard are the current archers don't want to be included in the doe lottery, the current archers don't want more hunters in their season, and gun hunters don't want more bucks killed prior to gun season.
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Coda1
Full Member
Posts: 242
Likes: 303
Location: Hunting north of Staples, MN
Zone: 3B
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Post by Coda1 on Feb 21, 2022 22:16:17 GMT -6
If the success rate was near 100% then the argument that the weapon doesn't matter would be true. In 2020 the success rate for firearms was 33.1% and for archery it was only 21.6% even though the season is much longer. While crossbows are not as effective as firearms they are more effective then vertical bows. The 21.6% archery success rate will increase slightly and there will also be more archery hunters so even at 21.6% there would be more deer shot. The archery season is quite long and early in the year. The idea being that it is much more difficult to shot a deer with a bow. By allowing more effective weapons in the same long season will have an effect. How much I'm not sure.
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Post by caveman on Feb 22, 2022 4:18:42 GMT -6
If the success rate was near 100% then the argument that the weapon doesn't matter would be true. In 2020 the success rate for firearms was 33.1% and for archery it was only 21.6% even though the season is much longer. While crossbows are not as effective as firearms they are more effective then vertical bows. The 21.6% archery success rate will increase slightly and there will also be more archery hunters so even at 21.6% there would be more deer shot. The archery season is quite long and early in the year. The idea being that it is much more difficult to shot a deer with a bow. By allowing more effective weapons in the same long season will have an effect. How much I'm not sure.
I don't believe near 100% success is ever attainable. Take into account the guys that buy a license and then have something come up where they can't hunt, the guys that buy a license but then just drink for 9 days, the guy that pass on a small deer in hopes of a large one, the guys that just suck at deer hunting, many guys hunt a piece of land and don't hunt the deer, etc....
I believe that everyone that wants to be successful and works for it is during our regular season, perhaps I am wrong. (I do hunt public land all over the state that is available to all of us and can't remember the last year I did not get a buck. The last several years I've passed many deer.) So, right now we are at 100% of our possible success rate and adding crossbows won't make a difference IMO.
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Post by Sandbur on Feb 22, 2022 4:46:56 GMT -6
If the success rate was near 100% then the argument that the weapon doesn't matter would be true. In 2020 the success rate for firearms was 33.1% and for archery it was only 21.6% even though the season is much longer. While crossbows are not as effective as firearms they are more effective then vertical bows. The 21.6% archery success rate will increase slightly and there will also be more archery hunters so even at 21.6% there would be more deer shot. The archery season is quite long and early in the year. The idea being that it is much more difficult to shot a deer with a bow. By allowing more effective weapons in the same long season will have an effect. How much I'm not sure.
I don't believe near 100% success is ever attainable. Take into account the guys that buy a license and then have something come up where they can't hunt, the guys that buy a license but then just drink for 9 days, the guy that pass on a small deer in hopes of a large one, the guys that just suck at deer hunting, many guys hunt a piece of land and don't hunt the deer, etc....
I believe that everyone that wants to be successful and works for it is during our regular season, perhaps I am wrong. (I do hunt public land all over the state that is available to all of us and can't remember the last year I did not get a buck. The last several years I've passed many deer.) So, right now we are at 100% of our possible success rate and adding crossbows won't make a difference IMO.
Crossbows will make a difference in areas where we are trying to build the deer herd by having reduced numbers of doe tags during the rifle and muzzleloader seasons. Unlimited harvest of does by bow hunters will have to end. You will have more meat hunters during the archery season versus the dedicated bow hunters we now tend to have. That said, when crossbows are passed, the doe harvest will be calculated in over a 5-10 year adjustment period.... if you have faith in your area deer manager.
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Post by Sandbur on Feb 22, 2022 4:51:02 GMT -6
I do fear that some area managers want to kill as many deer as possible, does especially. They are more concerned about returning to what is a vague historical picture of our state’s environment instead of the current reality.
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Post by smsmith on Feb 22, 2022 7:19:48 GMT -6
I predict very little change in total deer harvest, or buck/doe ratio harvest, when crossbows are added to the archery season.
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Post by badgerfowl on Feb 22, 2022 12:27:01 GMT -6
I predict very little change in total deer harvest, or buck/doe ratio harvest, when crossbows are added to the archery season. Which is what WI is seeing basically. It just shifts. If you want to limit deer harvest you have to limit tags. Period. The end. Only way it will happen.
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Post by Sandbur on Mar 17, 2022 4:35:53 GMT -6
The state meeting of MDHA chapters was held and MDHA does not support the use of crossbows during archery season.
This comes up every other year or so.
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