gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Apr 24, 2024 16:42:26 GMT -6
There are threads with aspects of this ....but after a bunch of searching couldn't find a cumulative one to help me road map this.
We have 15 ac of invasive junk being mulched (in southern Ohio) and don't believe the landscape was ever populated "by the good guys" here (as it appear just to be lousy strip mine cover/fill which is common for coal country). So out go the bad guys....the next generations of them will likely attempt to (re)establish fast due to decades of seed in/atop the soil. At home I'd run a disc and see what pops....not the case here. Privet, Honeysuckle, Rose, Alanthus, Buckthorn, Olive...... the whole reference guide to "Chit you dont want". I am thinking there will be the need to spray (maybe a few times) when it starts to pop again (and again and...).
We are looking to get some good stuff going with regard to natives- for critter cover or food. Ive got the Harper plant book and can make some guesses from there as to what forbs belong ....but not sure on grasses or plant rates or even good places to buy them? Id love ragweed, goldenrod, pokeweed....some more greenbriar, blackberry, raspberry, .....box elder, polar, willow and dogwood......and some grasses (to which i dont know whats "best"). Heck- Do I need a soil test? Ive been a deer on the bag kind of wannabe farmer for decades.....this is a whole new space for me.
Has anyone ever established good natives in an area that hasnt had them? Is this possible? Advice- Resources-Thoughts?
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Post by biglakebass on Apr 24, 2024 17:54:01 GMT -6
We planted a couple acres of natives several years ago, we just used a mix from the local SWCD office that we bought. Its been a slow process, but its taking over the cold season grasses slowly year by year. I dont even know everything in the mix we planted.
We started with just a shitty grassy area, with nothing else really. It was field and pasture from the past. We just disced it a few times, then drilled the natives into it.
I am pleased with the results.
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Apr 25, 2024 18:03:05 GMT -6
That's good to hear. Are you managing the grasses with chems, mowing or both?
This clearing and subsequent replant are part of an NRCS EQUIP program.
Id love to try the disc method.....but it has only be nasty shit growing here. It is like an encyclopedia of invasive plants.
So all in all; it was worth it? How are your deer using it....more bedding or browse?
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Post by biglakebass on Apr 25, 2024 19:26:33 GMT -6
That's good to hear. Are you managing the grasses with chems, mowing or both? This clearing and subsequent replant are part of an NRCS EQUIP program. Id love to try the disc method.....but it has only be nasty shit growing here. It is like an encyclopedia of invasive plants. So all in all; it was worth it? How are your deer using it....more bedding or browse? We have not done one minute of maintenence since planted. A burn would be nice, but the hell if I am doing that! Especially the last few summers. We have 30 year old pines with grasses amongst them, right next to it all. It was worth it, Its not super thick yet, but its slowly taking over. No idea on deer useage other than found a shed in it a few years ago. I would say its light useage right now. |
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Apr 26, 2024 3:46:16 GMT -6
That's good to hear!
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 26, 2024 4:38:35 GMT -6
That's good to hear. Are you managing the grasses with chems, mowing or both? This clearing and subsequent replant are part of an NRCS EQUIP program. Id love to try the disc method.....but it has only be nasty shit growing here. It is like an encyclopedia of invasive plants. So all in all; it was worth it? How are your deer using it....more bedding or browse? Doesn’t the program include guidelines and advice from technicians on what to plant or broadcast and how to do it? |
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Post by smsmith on Apr 26, 2024 6:08:27 GMT -6
I figured NRCS would tell you what you're planting, how you're planting it, and how/when to control invasives. Isn't that how habitat welfare programs work?
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Post by biglakebass on Apr 26, 2024 6:16:42 GMT -6
We did ours through NRCS. We got the seed mix from them. I dont recall if we had choices on the mixes.
We used their drill. A guy brought it out to the farm, and stayed there while Dad planted.
Maintenance requirements.... No clue. Dont recall. nobody has reached out to us for inspections. LOLL.
Worst cast we can brush hog it if needed. Easy enough.
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Apr 27, 2024 5:47:45 GMT -6
I have not been told what needs to be planted. At this point, they just provided the approval for mulching the invasives.
Spoke with Roundstone Natives yesterday- awesome folks and would love to work with them as much as I can. Obviously the layout of the "replacement aspects" is not something I'd let the NRCS dictate. While I will work with them as much as possible to offset costs, this is my deer/conservation project.
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 27, 2024 6:51:17 GMT -6
I have not been told what needs to be planted. At this point, they just provided the approval for mulching the invasives. Spoke with Roundstone Natives yesterday- awesome folks and would love to work with them as much as I can. Obviously the layout of the "replacement aspects" is not something I'd let the NRCS dictate. While I will work with them as much as possible to offset costs, this is my deer/conservation project. I have not been impressed with what our wildlife managers or even SWCD techs recommend. Some of the techs do allow rows of spruce and shrubs. I am not a big fan of native grasses for deer in northern climates. Managers in my area seem to want prairie grasses. I don’t think they are concerned about deer. |
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Apr 28, 2024 10:54:07 GMT -6
I don't know what to think of my SWCD guy. Either he is overworked or no "ball of fire". My buddies in other portions of Ohio have had very different , and positive feedback on their folks. My experience here in NY is all over the board. The family farm was in a song bird program to which the biologists spent the most time there in late Oct and early Nov .....
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 28, 2024 12:13:48 GMT -6
I don't know what to think of my SWCD guy. Either he is overworked or no "ball of fire". My buddies in other portions of Ohio have had very different , and positive feedback on their folks. My experience here in NY is all over the board. The family farm was in a song bird program to which the biologists spent the most time there in late Oct and early Nov ..... A number of the usda/nrcs people I’ve worked with move pretty slow. Even simple tasks can take months and months for them to complete. I think the reason they feel overworked is because they move so damn slow they never check anything off their list. I think the cost share on some high dollar projects like ponds or other large improvements may be worth the hassle. The aggravation of working at the government’s slow pace wouldn’t be worth it to me for smaller projects though. |
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gjs4
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Post by gjs4 on Apr 28, 2024 17:27:34 GMT -6
I think the cost share on some high dollar projects like ponds or other large improvements may be worth the hassle. The aggravation of working at the government’s slow pace wouldn’t be worth it to me for smaller projects though. 100% with you. |
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Post by Reagan on Apr 29, 2024 7:53:22 GMT -6
I buy stuff and plant it. I kill invasives and I cut down the trash trees like sweetgum. I haven’t cost shared anything.
Any time I think about government involvement I remember my thoughts on most anything government. Inefficient. Do more harm than good. I’ll pass
I did have them look at my property about a pond build. The dude looked at a creek valley and said a pond can be built there. I mentioned the piss poor strip mine reclaimed “soil” and its inability to hold water and lacking clay etc.
He said that might be so. We need another guy from another department to determine that. I asked what did he determine for me. He sees a slope and some running water. Well thanks a lot, I can see that too. That was my one and only government interaction.
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 29, 2024 11:05:21 GMT -6
My friend had the NRCS build put in a really nice dam on their farm, but I don't think he paid a lot of attention to the details. They made a 20 foot tall dam that would only hold a few inches of water. I guess the goal was to prevent erosion, not to hold water. It made no sense to me to build a giant dam only to put a culvert on the bottom to prevent water from filling the tall dam. I believe it was a 90% cost share, but they had to pay taxes on the value of the improvement, so I think they ended up paying $10-15k total, which is a great deal for the dam they made, but a crappy deal for the tiny amount of water it holds.
It was a learning experience, but it highlighted the goals of the NRCS may not always align with a hunter or landowner and that it is critical to pay attention to every detail.
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