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MN CWD
Feb 21, 2017 6:59:51 GMT -6
Post by Sandbur on Feb 21, 2017 6:59:51 GMT -6
The way I read it, the deer on the Iron Range was not called positive at present. It was exposed at one time at the ranch by Merrifield.
Time will tell if it is positive, as in the other farms like by Brainerd.
Would you guys like the DNR to manage your business or farm?
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MN CWD
Feb 21, 2017 7:10:39 GMT -6
Post by wiscwhip on Feb 21, 2017 7:10:39 GMT -6
Would you guys like the DNR to manage your business or farm? On that ^^^ note, fish farms are, what exactly makes cervid farms so different?
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MN CWD
Feb 21, 2017 7:14:45 GMT -6
Post by wiscwhip on Feb 21, 2017 7:14:45 GMT -6
Honestly, whether the fish farm is selling them for table fare(like many deer farmers selling venison) or they are providing the private ponds for fishing excursions(after all, how different is a private pond vs a high fence, essentially the same thing) so someone can possibly get a "trophy" for the wall, they are very much the same in many regards. At some point they took a wild creature and turned it into pellet fed "livestock".
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MN CWD
Feb 21, 2017 7:24:51 GMT -6
Post by Freeborn on Feb 21, 2017 7:24:51 GMT -6
The way I read it, the deer on the Iron Range was not called positive at present. It was exposed at one time at the ranch by Merrifield. Time will tell if it is positive, as in the other farms like by Brainerd. Would you guys like the DNR to manage your business or farm?
No but like any other company I want them to be liable for their actions. If you have a CWD infected captive herd and they escape their pen and affect the general population or you transfer them why are these companies not held liable for the clean-up? Something is not right here where they get protected for what most companies would see as their liability? Why is the general public held responsible? Maybe a class action lawsuit would fix this problem quickly.
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MN CWD
Feb 21, 2017 7:27:10 GMT -6
Post by smsmith on Feb 21, 2017 7:27:10 GMT -6
I think because it is impossible to say where the CWD infection came from oftentimes. A guy can make a supposition that is likely accurate, but it can't be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.
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MN CWD
Feb 21, 2017 7:32:54 GMT -6
Post by wiscwhip on Feb 21, 2017 7:32:54 GMT -6
I think because it is impossible to say where the CWD infection came from oftentimes. A guy can make a supposition that is likely accurate, but it can't be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. So then instead of filing a criminal suit, file a civil suit, no irrefutable proof needed for those? I am suing the deer farmers because I now have anxiety over whether their deer have spread CWD to the wild herd in my area...........
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Post by smsmith on Feb 21, 2017 7:38:50 GMT -6
I'd like a civil suit against the MN DNR because their deer management (or lack thereof) has caused the perception of most deer hunters in this state to be negative towards the value of rec land.
I've always figured the way to shut down deer farms would be for the beef industry to decide deer farms and the CWD they spread are threats to beef herds. There's no way deer farmers could hold off a full on "attack" by the beef industry. As it stands, all they have to do is hold off deer hunters and a government agency or two....that's easy. Big Beef? Not so easy
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Post by mnfish on Feb 21, 2017 8:31:29 GMT -6
I agree with all statements above but would like to add...
1) How do we know where an infection originated? Penned deer infecting wild deer. But couldn't be the reverse to true? Wild deer can get CWD without a deer farm influence. Thinking purely as a scientist how would we know for sure. Lawsuits could go both ways...yes/no?
2) If a deer farm knowingly has an infected population, elects to keep them alive and any of that herd gets out....that should be punished hard!
3) The MN DNR, with Lou at the helm, have really messed this up. He is burning the only support groups left of the Big Game Management. And if Lou wants to "go after" the department of Ag, I beleive he will have his ass handed to him. And rightfully so, as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Sandbur on Feb 21, 2017 8:50:16 GMT -6
The question always will be where did the disease come from-inside or outside of the pen.
In my mind there is no question that deer farms have spread the disease, as have hunters.
I do a bit of work for the deer farms. The state has decided to call them livestock(so are honey bees!).
I much prefer wild deer to deer as livestock. I wish we could go back to the old days when deer farms and the trophyism that has spurred their growth did not exist. I won't call people shooting livestock in a pen, hunters. Let's just say those after trophies have spurred the industry.
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Post by Freeborn on Feb 21, 2017 9:13:32 GMT -6
I’m a numbers guy and would like to understand the probability that wild deer are approaching penned animals and transferring bodily fluids (spreading CWD)? If fluids are being exchanged then precautions need to be taken. I don’t know this for a fact but isn’t most of the spread of CWD near penned animals?
In addition there are ways to mitigate risk? More frequent testing, double electric fencing? Cost of liability is not just when you have an event it’s the cost of doing business to prevent the event. Similar to insurance those precautions need to be added to the cost of doing business.
Shooting big game animals behind a fence is not my cup of tea but the wealthy people who can afford it can also afford to pay the mitigating costs associated with managing for a healthy herd.
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Post by kl9 on Feb 21, 2017 9:19:06 GMT -6
I think there are several cases of deer farms spreading CWD and there are instances of sporadic development. I agree we should take the more conservative route and require double fencing.
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MN CWD
Feb 21, 2017 9:26:54 GMT -6
Post by mnfish on Feb 21, 2017 9:26:54 GMT -6
Double fence would definitely reduce the risk of infection not to mention redundancy for escape proofing. I believe there are states with CWD infected whitetails that have never had any deer farms. So, I think it's almost impossible to prove, imho
Wild deer absolutely approach penned deer. Setup on the outside of a penned area during the rut and watch those bucks pace the fence line trying to get in. Not saying that fenced deer could have caused a lot of this but how do you rule out.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm with you guys. In the world of fish it's the same. If I stock a VHS or other infected fish into a pond and it gets out (fish get out all the time) into the public water, I should be financially liable. Funny thing is fish farming is under the jurisdiction of the MN DNR and not the department of Ag.
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MN CWD
Feb 21, 2017 10:03:06 GMT -6
Post by wiscwhip on Feb 21, 2017 10:03:06 GMT -6
This ^^^ It's all about the lobby at the state capitols. Much like stu said, deer farmers can hold their own against many "threats" due to their lobbying power, and as he said, big beef would not be one of them.
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Post by kl9 on Feb 23, 2017 10:11:56 GMT -6
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MN CWD
Feb 23, 2017 10:38:36 GMT -6
Post by daydreamer on Feb 23, 2017 10:38:36 GMT -6
Oh, now they want to come out and play in MN...'bout time
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