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Post by smsmith on Dec 2, 2017 8:58:43 GMT -6
What I find slightly interesting is that RCs tend to pop up here on swamp edges and other areas with consistent moisture.
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 2, 2017 10:43:41 GMT -6
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Post by Bwoods11 on Dec 2, 2017 11:10:19 GMT -6
Almost identical!
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 2, 2017 12:12:56 GMT -6
When my CRP was planted the NRCS did not want to plant red cedar on my place. I'm not certain why but I did not push it. With all my Apple trees I'm hesitant to plant red cedar but they would probably do well on my sandiest soils. Most of the agency biologist/ecologists types don't promote them as they reproduce quickly enough to classify as invasive, and release tons of water from the ground into the atmosphere... something like 4-40 gallons per tree per day if I remember right.
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Post by sd51555 on Dec 2, 2017 14:44:22 GMT -6
When my CRP was planted the NRCS did not want to plant red cedar on my place. I'm not certain why but I did not push it. With all my Apple trees I'm hesitant to plant red cedar but they would probably do well on my sandiest soils. Most of the agency biologist/ecologists types don't promote them as they reproduce quickly enough to classify as invasive, and release tons of water from the ground into the atmosphere... something like 4-40 gallons per tree per day if I remember right. Huh? Like these could be used as ground dryers?
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 2, 2017 15:56:43 GMT -6
Most of the agency biologist/ecologists types don't promote them as they reproduce quickly enough to classify as invasive, and release tons of water from the ground into the atmosphere... something like 4-40 gallons per tree per day if I remember right. Huh? Like these could be used as ground dryers? That's the jist of it. Conserving water is kind of a big deal here.. grass doesn't grow under cedars... cedars deplete soil moisture... dry grassless land doesn't grow steak on the hoof... so cedar = bad.
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Post by Reagan on Dec 2, 2017 16:01:59 GMT -6
I'm finding more little red cedars popping up every year. Apparently, cattle must keep them suppressed? Since the cattle have been gone for 6 years I'm finding more of a number of woody species showing up. I'll give the cedars a "pass" with the saw for now. I’m not sure about that. My dad’s place had cattle before he bought it. There were and are cedars everywhere. Everything has become much thicker in the 13-14 years that cattle have been gone.
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Post by sd51555 on Dec 2, 2017 16:05:02 GMT -6
Huh? Like these could be used as ground dryers? That's the jist of it. Conserving water is kind of a big deal here.. grass doesn't grow under cedars... cedars deplete soil moisture... dry grassless land doesn't grow steak on the hoof... so cedar = bad. We have opposite problems, and I've been trying to figure out how to work with it instead of fight it. Found a neat read on swampland management. Apparently, I shouldn't get too wild with the chainsaw until I understand this stuff a little more. www.michigandnr.com/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/Landowners_Guide/Habitat_Mgmt/Wetland/Swamps.htm
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 2, 2017 16:17:08 GMT -6
That's the jist of it. Conserving water is kind of a big deal here.. grass doesn't grow under cedars... cedars deplete soil moisture... dry grassless land doesn't grow steak on the hoof... so cedar = bad. We have opposite problems, and I've been trying to figure out how to work with it instead of fight it. Found a neat read on swampland management. Apparently, I shouldn't get too wild with the chainsaw until I understand this stuff a little more. www.michigandnr.com/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/Landowners_Guide/Habitat_Mgmt/Wetland/Swamps.htmDidn't read it (getting ready to leave). Does it basically say to leave plants to siphon water out of the soil instead of clearing plant to increase evaporation? Lots cattle guys are very active in plant management. Spraying, clipping, mowing, rotational grazing, ect. to promote grasses/legumes instead of woody plants. Maybe cover increases after cattle removal is more a function of removing the human and not so much the bovine...
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Post by sd51555 on Dec 2, 2017 16:28:44 GMT -6
Didn't read it (getting ready to leave). Does it basically say to leave plants to siphon water out of the soil instead of clearing plant to increase evaporation?Lots cattle guys are very active in plant management. Spraying, clipping, mowing, rotational grazing, ect. to promote grasses/legumes instead of woody plants. Maybe cover increases after cattle removal is more a function of removing the human and not so much the bovine... Yep. And my logical follow up question is, which plants pull up the most moisture, and I'm near certain no such information exists.
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 2, 2017 16:50:36 GMT -6
Didn't read it (getting ready to leave). Does it basically say to leave plants to siphon water out of the soil instead of clearing plant to increase evaporation?Lots cattle guys are very active in plant management. Spraying, clipping, mowing, rotational grazing, ect. to promote grasses/legumes instead of woody plants. Maybe cover increases after cattle removal is more a function of removing the human and not so much the bovine... Yep. And my logical follow up question is, which plants pull up the most moisture, and I'm near certain no such information exists. Well... eastern read cedar is high on the list.
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Post by smsmith on Dec 2, 2017 18:17:51 GMT -6
I'm finding more little red cedars popping up every year. Apparently, cattle must keep them suppressed? Since the cattle have been gone for 6 years I'm finding more of a number of woody species showing up. I'll give the cedars a "pass" with the saw for now. I’m not sure about that. My dad’s place had cattle before he bought it. There were and are cedars everywhere. Everything has become much thicker in the 13-14 years that cattle have been gone. I'm not sure either. All I can report is what I have personally seen. RCs before I was here and the cattle removed = sparse to non-existent. RCs after that point = more numerous. If there's some other factor involved with why RCs were rare before and now more numerous, I'd love to be made aware of it.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Dec 2, 2017 18:52:19 GMT -6
I was able too get red cedar in my CRP plan in 2002/2005... etc.
No more, they will no longer allow it. Not in Pope County or Otter Tail.
They can't control non-CRP acres, and re-plants on your own dime, I believe is allowed.
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Post by Catscratch on Dec 2, 2017 19:38:23 GMT -6
Didn't read it (getting ready to leave). Does it basically say to leave plants to siphon water out of the soil instead of clearing plant to increase evaporation?Lots cattle guys are very active in plant management. Spraying, clipping, mowing, rotational grazing, ect. to promote grasses/legumes instead of woody plants. Maybe cover increases after cattle removal is more a function of removing the human and not so much the bovine... Yep. And my logical follow up question is, which plants pull up the most moisture, and I'm near certain no such information exists. I've been gone all evening but have given this some thought. You might do a google search "transpiration by species" or something like that (transpiration is the key word here). You might find something relevant to your area. Cedars in fallow pasture could be due to taller vegetation without the cows. Birds eat the cedar seeds, stratify them, then crap them out. I can take a pic tomorrow that shows most of our cedars in a certain pasture are starting under established trees... where birds perch. I've successfully created awesome habitat by spraying or discing a line, hang a single strand of wire a few feet above it, and then feed the birds there. They will plant all sorts of wonderful native stuff for you.
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Post by Satchmo on Dec 3, 2017 22:29:24 GMT -6
Yep. And my logical follow up question is, which plants pull up the most moisture, and I'm near certain no such information exists. I've been gone all evening but have given this some thought. You might do a google search "transpiration by species" or something like that (transpiration is the key word here). You might find something relevant to your area. Cedars in fallow pasture could be due to taller vegetation without the cows. Birds eat the cedar seeds, stratify them, then crap them out. I can take a pic tomorrow that shows most of our cedars in a certain pasture are starting under established trees... where birds perch. I've successfully created awesome habitat by spraying or discing a line, hang a single strand of wire a few feet above it, and then feed the birds there. They will plant all sorts of wonderful native stuff for you. Good point Cat. My brother expanded his red cedar line screening by simply pressing in 4ft lathe along his line to give the birds a place to perch. Worked like a charm.
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