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Gypsum
Aug 20, 2018 9:43:47 GMT -6
Post by kooch on Aug 20, 2018 9:43:47 GMT -6
Added - The report says 6 TONS lime per acre. So, I started dumping lime. I don't know if pell lime really is better at changing PH than ag lime. But, I can't get ag lime in there anyway. How else would a guy go about raising PH? I get what's available at the co-op. I figured 1,500 was a drop in the bucket and would test again next year. Certainly wasn't going to add more until I had another test.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Aug 20, 2018 9:47:40 GMT -6
So calcium at 2300 ppm is low on your test? LOL! Yes. I wonder if the differences have to do with CEC numbers (mine is 22.6, your's is 8.2), and % saturation Ca (mine - 52.6%, your's -76.2%) That could be it. Maybe whip knows more about. If I get time I will ask our fertilizer rep and see what he knows.
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Gypsum
Aug 20, 2018 9:53:52 GMT -6
Post by Catscratch on Aug 20, 2018 9:53:52 GMT -6
Yes. I wonder if the differences have to do with CEC numbers (mine is 22.6, your's is 8.2), and % saturation Ca (mine - 52.6%, your's -76.2%) That could be it. Maybe whip knows more about. If I get time I will ask our fertilizer rep and see what he knows. That would be great. I bet someone on here knows the answer too.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Aug 20, 2018 9:54:41 GMT -6
That could be it. Maybe whip knows more about. If I get time I will ask our fertilizer rep and see what he knows. That would be great. I bet someone on here knows the answer too. I would love to find out what the difference is. This may turn out to be a great thread!
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Gypsum
Aug 20, 2018 9:59:49 GMT -6
Post by Catscratch on Aug 20, 2018 9:59:49 GMT -6
Just for reference; I used AgSource Harris Laboratories and recommendations were based on Winter Wheat for intended crop, Grass/Hay preceding crop.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Aug 20, 2018 10:02:53 GMT -6
Just for reference; I used AgSource Harris Laboratories and recommendations were based on Winter Wheat for intended crop, Grass/Hay preceding crop. That’s great! I love it when a lab puts on the recommended amounts of fertilizer for a desired yield. Makes it easy for us dumb ass’s to get it on right!
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Gypsum
Aug 20, 2018 10:11:13 GMT -6
Post by kooch on Aug 20, 2018 10:11:13 GMT -6
Well I've got my Sulfur answer. I'll add some gypsum next year.
Back to the PH thing. How should I go about improving PH? I don't plan to put any more lime on until I get another soil text, next year maybe. But, if it's still low, what would you use to change that, if not the stuff available at my co-op?
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Gypsum
Aug 20, 2018 10:18:58 GMT -6
Post by wiscwhip on Aug 20, 2018 10:18:58 GMT -6
"Yes. I wonder if the differences have to do with CEC numbers (mine is 22.6, your's is 8.2), and % saturation Ca (mine - 52.6%, your's -76.2%)"
It has to do with all those factors above including your Cal/Mg ratio and OM%. Kooch adding the SuperCal should be OK considering he has what would be considered a high Mg to Cal ratio, roughly 34% Mg to 64% Cal. Thing is, gypsum in this case wouldn't provide as much benefit given his pH is still pretty low, high cal lime is the way to add calcium, thus raising his pH, in this case. "IF" his pH were closer to 7.0, he could still make his Cal/Mg ratio better, say somewhere between the optimum ranges of 70%/30% to 80%/20%, by adding gypsum. This would be the way to go if his ratio was still deficient but his pH were neutral.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Aug 20, 2018 10:24:00 GMT -6
"Yes. I wonder if the differences have to do with CEC numbers (mine is 22.6, your's is 8.2), and % saturation Ca (mine - 52.6%, your's -76.2%)"
It has to do with all those factors above including your Cal/Mg ratio and OM%. Kooch adding the SuperCal should be OK considering he has what would be considered a high Mg to Cal ratio, roughly 34% Mg to 64% Cal. Thing is, gypsum in this case wouldn't provide as much benefit given his pH is still pretty low, high cal lime is the way to add calcium, thus raising his pH, in this case. "IF" his pH were closer to 7.0, he could still make his Cal/Mg ratio better, say somewhere between the optimum ranges of 70%/30% to 80%/20%, by adding gypsum. This would be the way to go if his ratio was still deficient but his pH were neutral. I agree adding all the calcium he will be ok, just not needed. And some lost dollars.
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Post by Sandbur on Aug 20, 2018 10:39:08 GMT -6
My head is spinning on this. I seem to remember to add 25 pounds of sulfur per acre for red clover. Sound right for light soil?
Second question. Does dairy pit manure or chicken manure supply much sulfur?
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Gypsum
Aug 20, 2018 11:23:55 GMT -6
Post by kooch on Aug 20, 2018 11:23:55 GMT -6
It has to do with all those factors above including your Cal/Mg ratio and OM%. Kooch adding the SuperCal should be OK considering he has what would be considered a high Mg to Cal ratio, roughly 34% Mg to 64% Cal. Thing is, gypsum in this case wouldn't provide as much benefit given his pH is still pretty low, high cal lime is the way to add calcium, thus raising his pH, in this case. "IF" his pH were closer to 7.0, he could still make his Cal/Mg ratio better, say somewhere between the optimum ranges of 70%/30% to 80%/20%, by adding gypsum. This would be the way to go if his ratio was still deficient but his pH were neutral. Thanks for the input. I feel better now. I'll test again next year and see what it all says then. What I'm hearing here is that I can keep using the convenient SuperCal until I get closer to 7. I doubt I'll ever get there. Also, don't bother with Sulfur until my PH is better, unless I just feel like throwing some money away at my soil. With the cost of the shit I've dumped on this 2 acres so far, I'm not very inclined to buy stuff that's just going to give me tiny improvements.... But, my mind changes like the weather.
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Post by wiscwhip on Aug 20, 2018 11:38:23 GMT -6
It has to do with all those factors above including your Cal/Mg ratio and OM%. Kooch adding the SuperCal should be OK considering he has what would be considered a high Mg to Cal ratio, roughly 34% Mg to 64% Cal. Thing is, gypsum in this case wouldn't provide as much benefit given his pH is still pretty low, high cal lime is the way to add calcium, thus raising his pH, in this case. "IF" his pH were closer to 7.0, he could still make his Cal/Mg ratio better, say somewhere between the optimum ranges of 70%/30% to 80%/20%, by adding gypsum. This would be the way to go if his ratio was still deficient but his pH were neutral. Thanks for the input. I feel better now. I'll test again next year and see what it all says then. What I'm hearing here is that I can keep using the convenient SuperCal until I get closer to 7. I doubt I'll ever get there. Also, don't bother with Sulfur until my PH is better, unless I just feel like throwing some money away at my soil. With the cost of the shit I've dumped on this 2 acres so far, I'm not very inclined to buy stuff that's just going to give me tiny improvements.... But, my mind changes like the weather. I wouldn't say your "throwing" anything away per se, but my advice would be to test your soil and then post up the soil test results on here to get some input before you amend your soil any further. Lots of experience here to give advice on stuff like that. Also, keep in mind that SuperCal is 98% pure calcitic lime, your 6ton recommendation on your test reports are based on 80% to 89% at best. You could be near half way to amending that soil pH into the 6.3 to 6.5 range already, but it may take a year(or more) for it to show up on a test.
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Gypsum
Aug 20, 2018 11:42:15 GMT -6
Post by kooch on Aug 20, 2018 11:42:15 GMT -6
Perfecto. Thanks.
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Gypsum
Aug 20, 2018 11:42:19 GMT -6
Post by nhmountains on Aug 20, 2018 11:42:19 GMT -6
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Post by benmnwi on Aug 20, 2018 11:42:37 GMT -6
I just sent in a soil sample for testing at the U of MN and it says the sulfur test is not a reliable predictor of sulfur needs and that sulfur recommendations are based on crop and soil texture. So I skipped the extra sulfur testing and I'll buy a bag of gypsum with it.
Back to Kooch's question on how to improve pH. I just throw on a bunch of lime - whatever is available at the best price and keep my fingers crossed. That has worked so far. Or maybe it hasn't, who the hell really knows. I know my plots look good if it rains though so I call that good enough. pH is where it's supposed to be, but I'm not sure about the other stuff. I don't have the slightest idea the differences in lime and I have to draw the line somewhere. I just buy a dump truck load for a few hundred bucks and shovel that crap by hand until it's gone 5 years later.
I did go for the extra soil test that shows the calcium and magnesium levels this time around, so I'll post that info for some feedback.
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