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Post by Freeborn on Sept 14, 2020 7:05:20 GMT -6
Hey guys, I have a steel bolt frozen in an aluminum dock that has been broken off and now either needs to be drilled out or extracted. My brother in-law tried a harbor freight extraction bit but it did not work. Whats the best approach for removing the bolt? Is there a way to extract it or am I better off just drilling it out? Any thoughts on a good tool that would work and method? Should I heat it first and then try the tool? Whats the best approach.  |
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Post by Tooln on Sept 14, 2020 7:17:08 GMT -6
First off lube the piss out of it with WD40 or penetrating oil. Let it sit for an hour or so. Is there anything sticking out you can grab with a vise grips? If so grab it as tight as you can. While putting pressure on it to turn it smack the vise grip with a hammer to give it a shock. Sometimes this will work. Another option is to thermo cycle it. Heat it up to just under red hot and then hit it with cold water. This also gives a shock which may work. If neither of these work then if you have one, a left hand drill bit is your best bet. If it comes out with the left hand bit your good and if it doesn't your part way to drilling it out completely and retapping. I've used every one of these tactics over the past 40 years and one of them will work. Good luck
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Post by Freeborn on Sept 15, 2020 7:18:21 GMT -6
First off lube the piss out of it with WD40 or penetrating oil. Let it sit for an hour or so. Is there anything sticking out you can grab with a vise grips? If so grab it as tight as you can. While putting pressure on it to turn it smack the vise grip with a hammer to give it a shock. Sometimes this will work. Another option is to thermo cycle it. Heat it up to just under red hot and then hit it with cold water. This also gives a shock which may work. If neither of these work then if you have one, a left hand drill bit is your best bet. If it comes out with the left hand bit your good and if it doesn't your part way to drilling it out completely and retapping. I've used every one of these tactics over the past 40 years and one of them will work. Good luck Thanks Tooln, Once I get the bolt removed what do you typically do for sizing the replacement bolt? Should I tap one size up? |
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Post by Tooln on Sept 15, 2020 7:26:20 GMT -6
If you get the bolt out you should be able to run a tap the same size to clean up the threads. If you have to drill it out go up one size. Let me know how it works for you. Shit if you were close I'd come do it for you. Never-seez or locktite anti seize are your friends for the new bolt installation. In the food industry I worked in I would teardown new equipment, motors, etc and coat all fasteners. I proved that time after time it was well worth the time and effort.
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Post by Catscratch on Sept 15, 2020 8:06:42 GMT -6
Torch it out, put it back together with vice-grips and JBWeld. Easy sauce!
Actually... I would do like Tooln said and hit it with penetrating oil, but I would do it everyday for a week or so. Then thermocycle it. Then use an EZout or extractor of some sort with with my drill on hammer mode to "tap" it into turning. All else fails I drill the metal out next to the bolt, dig it all out, then put an oversized bolt in afterwards.
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Post by Tooln on Sept 15, 2020 13:48:16 GMT -6
Torch it out, put it back together with vice-grips and JBWeld. Easy sauce! Actually... I would do like Tooln said and hit it with penetrating oil, but I would do it everyday for a week or so. Then thermocycle it. Then use an EZout or extractor of some sort with with my drill on hammer mode to "tap" it into turning. All else fails I drill the metal out next to the bolt, dig it all out, then put an oversized bolt in afterwards. Soaking longer is always better. I'm just not use to having the time to do this. If a piece of equipment or line is down because of a broken fastener getting it out and back running was job 1. |
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Coda1
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Location: Hunting north of Staples, MN
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Post by Coda1 on Sept 18, 2020 15:39:09 GMT -6
Heating it should help quite a bit since aluminum has a much higher thermal expansion rate.
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Post by kl9 on Sept 18, 2020 17:22:35 GMT -6
Get it unstuck ?
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Post by Foggy on Sept 18, 2020 19:08:34 GMT -6
Tooln' has likely done more of this than most of us. But, I'd be careful in heating too much on aluminum or you could ruin the temper or melt it with a torch (depending on the needed strength in the metal). I think most aluminum will go molten at about 1600 degrees and that bolt is likely just getting hot then. Could be you got a little electrolysis going on with dissimilar metals? Did you have zinc plated fasteners? You could go to stainless to lessen the issue......but I have some aluminum with plated steel fasteners too.....and have never had an issue. I've had good luck with those tapered square easy-outs. Tap 'em into a hole......and twist em with a creccent wrench. Enough penetrating oil and a little heat should do the trick. Many years ago.....I sold aluminum roofing and belly pan material that we assembled with galvanized steel cleats. We did worry a bit about electrolysis and leaky roofs......but the mechanical strength and short life of the vehicles we were selling (travel trailers and motor homes) .....meh.  . |
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Post by Tooln on Sept 18, 2020 19:16:28 GMT -6
Foggy hit the nail on the head with electrolysis going on. With the melting point of aluminum if memory serves me right is just under 1300 degrees F. You wouldn't need to get near melting point the fact that aluminum heats faster than the bolt material and will expand faster is all that matters. Just waiting for an update now. Easy outs are ok but I usually found that they tend to expand what your trying to remove. The only time I found them usefull is when the fastener lost it head and wasn't seized to whatever is was screwed into.
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Coda1
Full Member
Posts: 242
Likes: 303
Location: Hunting north of Staples, MN
Zone: 3B
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Post by Coda1 on Sept 18, 2020 19:35:47 GMT -6
You can screw up the temper of aluminum at a fairly low temperature, probably about 350-400 degrees. The temper probably doesn't matter for a dock but with a torch you would have to be careful not to actually melt it. Like Tooln I've had trouble with easy outs expanding the bolt which can make matters worse. I'd put a penetrating oil on it for a while then try to get it up to about 500 degrees hoping the aluminum will expand away from the bolt then quickly try the easy out. If that didn't work I'd drill it out and tap it.
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Post by Foggy on Sept 18, 2020 20:41:06 GMT -6
You can screw up the temper of aluminum at a fairly low temperature, probably about 350-400 degrees. The temper probably doesn't matter for a dock but with a torch you would have to be careful not to actually melt it. Like Tooln I've had trouble with easy outs expanding the bolt which can make matters worse. I'd put a penetrating oil on it for a while then try to get it up to about 500 degrees hoping the aluminum will expand away from the bolt then quickly try the easy out. If that didn't work I'd drill it out and tap it. Coda....you been hanging here for a time. And I think much of what you post is spot on. Dont know much about you. Pretty mysterious. . What do you do for a living? Give us a little bio??? Not required.....but would be good to get you into the "fold". |
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Coda1
Full Member
Posts: 242
Likes: 303
Location: Hunting north of Staples, MN
Zone: 3B
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Post by Coda1 on Sept 18, 2020 22:10:24 GMT -6
Coda....you been hanging here for a time. And I think much of what you post is spot on. Dont know much about you. Pretty mysterious. . What do you do for a living? Give us a little bio??? Not required.....but would be good to get you into the "fold".
I'm a machinist generally programing and running a five axis CNC mill at a small shop in the Twin Cities. I get to make some very cool and expensive parts. I've done parts for satellites and two Mars rovers. I just made some sabot pedals for a rail gun. I'm a bit new to the deer habitat stuff. A couple of years ago my father bought 35 acres next to the 5 acres he had a cabin on giving us 40 acres. Most of it was logged off then replanted by Potlatch before they sold it. It's located within the boundaries of Lyons state forest in Wadena county and bordered by state land on two sides so we have low deer numbers. I've wanted food plots for many years and now I finally can plant them. We've managed to carve out a couple small plots from the stump infested land. With the information pulled from this site and a few others I've been having getting fairly good plots considering the very sandy soil I'm working with. We haven't done much habitat stuff other then the food plots. I would like to get some land of my own but haven't found a piece I like at a reasonable price. I'm still single so I can spend my money on whatever I want but the prices of land just seem too high right now. I'm afraid to buy then have a recession hit and have the value plummet. It would be a little easier to justify if Minnesota had a higher quality deer herd. I'm 41 and would like to buy something while I've still got some time to reap the reward of any improvements I could make.
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Post by Freeborn on Sept 19, 2020 6:18:11 GMT -6
I have not started yet as the dock is at the lake, I'll get a crack at it mid-week. I am working from the lake for most of the week but have a buddy up this weekend so i won't get a crack at it until Tuesday probably. Lots of good advise so here is my plan. - I plan on soaking the threads with WD40 a few times over a couple days
- I'll also give a few taps with the hammer when I am spraying
- I don't have an easy out so I need to pick one up so I'll do that
- I have a hand torch that should heat the bolt up without doing damage to the aluminum so I'll use that
- Once I have the bolt hot I'll give the easy-out a try.
- I have a impact driver I was thinking of using if the bit would fit. I thought the impact affect might loosen the bolt but the RPMS might be to high?
- If it doesn't come out I'll drill it out and see if I can't use a small chisel to split the edge of the bolt so I can grab and remove it.
That's the plan for now, I should have an update later in the week. |
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Post by Foggy on Sept 19, 2020 7:25:17 GMT -6
Coda....you been hanging here for a time. And I think much of what you post is spot on. Dont know much about you. Pretty mysterious. . What do you do for a living? Give us a little bio??? Not required.....but would be good to get you into the "fold".
I'm a machinist generally programing and running a five axis CNC mill at a small shop in the Twin Cities. I get to make some very cool and expensive parts. I've done parts for satellites and two Mars rovers. I just made some sabot pedals for a rail gun. I'm a bit new to the deer habitat stuff. A couple of years ago my father bought 35 acres next to the 5 acres he had a cabin on giving us 40 acres. Most of it was logged off then replanted by Potlatch before they sold it. It's located within the boundaries of Lyons state forest in Wadena county and bordered by state land on two sides so we have low deer numbers. I've wanted food plots for many years and now I finally can plant them. We've managed to carve out a couple small plots from the stump infested land. With the information pulled from this site and a few others I've been having getting fairly good plots considering the very sandy soil I'm working with. We haven't done much habitat stuff other then the food plots. I would like to get some land of my own but haven't found a piece I like at a reasonable price. I'm still single so I can spend my money on whatever I want but the prices of land just seem too high right now. I'm afraid to buy then have a recession hit and have the value plummet. It would be a little easier to justify if Minnesota had a higher quality deer herd. I'm 41 and would like to buy something while I've still got some time to reap the reward of any improvements I could make.
Nice bio. Good to know more about you. Not sure where your land is......are you near Huntersville? Seems to me land is fairly priced in that area. |
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