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Post by mnfish on Dec 29, 2020 19:33:26 GMT -6
Is this a marketing tool or truth?... Using hard coated clover seeds has more success than soft. What do u guys use?
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Post by smsmith on Dec 29, 2020 19:37:06 GMT -6
I'm not sure I've ever seen clover advertised as hard or soft seeded? It is true that a fair amount of red and white clover seed is hard seeded, which means it is able to persist in the soil bank for quite awhile and remain viable. I don't know if annual clovers are hard or soft seeded...I do know that most annual clovers aren't recommended for frostseeding.
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Post by mnfish on Dec 29, 2020 19:41:53 GMT -6
I'm not sure I've ever seen clover advertised as hard or soft seeded? It is true that a fair amount of red and white clover seed is hard seeded, which means it is able to persist in the soil bank for quite awhile and remain viable. I don't know if annual clovers are hard or soft seeded...I do know that most annual clovers aren't recommended for frostseeding. Watching a guy Jason say on frost seeding and he represents Whitetail Institute so I'm sure there is marketing going on. Just wondering if that coated seed would add to the chance of success |
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Post by smsmith on Dec 29, 2020 19:44:48 GMT -6
I'm not sure I've ever seen clover advertised as hard or soft seeded? It is true that a fair amount of red and white clover seed is hard seeded, which means it is able to persist in the soil bank for quite awhile and remain viable. I don't know if annual clovers are hard or soft seeded...I do know that most annual clovers aren't recommended for frostseeding. Watching a guy Jason say on frost seeding and he represents Whitetail Institute so I'm sure there is marketing going on. Just wondering if that coated seed would add to the chance of success ohhh....is he talking about rhizo coated seed? Maybe seed with some fancy "water absorbing" coating? Rhizo coated seed would be beneficial for nodulating N...but only in soils where clover hasn't grown before. Around here, that's pretty hard to find. There's wild white and red clover all over. |
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Post by mnfish on Dec 29, 2020 19:52:04 GMT -6
This was the seed he was reccomending. This coated seed is worth the premium or not i guess is my question  |
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Post by smsmith on Dec 29, 2020 19:57:55 GMT -6
This was the seed he was reccomending. This coated seed is worth the premium or not i guess is my question I believe that's the fancy, water absorbing coating I mentioned previously. "Rainbond absorbs up to 200 times its weight in moisture from the soil and keeps it next to the seeds as they sprout and grow." No, IMHO it is not of any possible value when frostseeding. By definition, there's plenty of moisture in the ground when frostseeding. |
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Post by mnfish on Dec 29, 2020 20:02:08 GMT -6
Thanks man! I am having to become a clover farmer and looking to maximize every square foot and ensure success. What kind of seeding rates would you use for frost seeding a plot that was completely turned the previous year?
Pigs and frost seeding, I think, will go hand in hand
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Post by smsmith on Dec 29, 2020 20:09:15 GMT -6
Completely turned as in plowed/disked/whatever so it will be bare soil come spring? I believe frostseeding rates of both white and red clovers range from 2-6 lbs/acre. I always go way heavy with clover seed. It's relatively cheap on a per acre/per year basis and I want lots of seed in the seed bank if/when bare soil opens up.
I believe a good way to keep your clover going strong for years and years would be to let your pigs eat the clover down to the ground before freeze up. Then frost seed a few lbs. more each year. Between that and occasional clethodim or IMOX use...I think a guy could keep clover growing pretty much forever.
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 30, 2020 4:39:42 GMT -6
I'm not sure I've ever seen clover advertised as hard or soft seeded? It is true that a fair amount of red and white clover seed is hard seeded, which means it is able to persist in the soil bank for quite awhile and remain viable. I don't know if annual clovers are hard or soft seeded...I do know that most annual clovers aren't recommended for frostseeding. Watching a guy Jason say on frost seeding and he represents Whitetail Institute so I'm sure there is marketing going on. Just wondering if that coated seed would add to the chance of success WI used to have some lime in their coating if my memory is correct. When you buy their seed by the pound, you buy lots of coating. |
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Post by nhmountains on Dec 30, 2020 5:42:22 GMT -6
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 30, 2020 6:12:30 GMT -6
What clover would be good to plant on this south facing steep hillside. The ph is low. Probably 5.0. I’m not looking long term just something to grow for a couple seasons as the oaks mature and the stumps resprout and they take up the sunlight. I’m thinking medium red? Any white like Dutch? The wind whips through here so any leaves will be gone by spring. There’ll be more trees coming down for more sunlight. Any other thing I should plant besides clover at that ph?     I was thinking alsike . How does birdsfoot trefoil for for deer usage and persistence in your area? |
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Post by nhmountains on Dec 30, 2020 6:22:46 GMT -6
^^^. Thanks Art. I think I have some of the alsike leftover so I’ll try that too. I’ve seen birdsfoot trefoil here and there but, have never tried planting it. There’s a few game trails on this hillside so adding clover may provide a fall opportunity. The oaks are just starting to produce nuts.
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Post by Sandbur on Dec 30, 2020 7:02:00 GMT -6
^^^. Thanks Art. I think I have some of the alsike leftover so I’ll try that too. I’ve seen birdsfoot trefoil here and there but, have never tried planting it. There’s a few game trails on this hillside so adding clover may provide a fall opportunity. The oaks are just starting to produce nuts. If it looks drier, add just a bit of medium red. I had some birdsfoot persist for over 20 years in farm country where I live. Deer didn’t use it. In northern Minnesota, I have seen deer use it heavily. |
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Post by smsmith on Dec 30, 2020 7:22:03 GMT -6
I would think in a big woods environment like NH's, BFT would see some use. Alsike, BFT, medium red, white dutch...all worth trying. So is chicory. Chicory doesn't need a high ph.
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Post by nhmountains on Dec 30, 2020 7:36:39 GMT -6
I would think in a big woods environment like NH's, BFT would see some use. Alsike, BFT, medium red, white dutch...all worth trying. So is chicory. Chicory doesn't need a high ph. That hillside gets a lot of sun and heat due to being south facing and maybe the angle? I was cutting in a long sleeve T-shirt yesterday in 19 degree temperatures and was sweating all day. I got to the top of the ridge and the wind was howling and got cold. I think the chicory would be great if I can get it established. I’m guessing those oaks are going to grow fast now and will block out a lot of the sun in 3 years but, it should get use in those years. |
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