|
Post by Bwoods11 on May 30, 2023 8:27:58 GMT -6
I strongly believe in (1) buck tag per person should be the rule, and in some cases (SW Minnesota & potentially NE Minnesota) there should be a buck lottery .
In some counties in SW MN they issue more substantially more buck tags than there are bucks in the county .
|
|
windgypsy
Full Member
Posts: 126
Likes: 162
Location: Kanabec, Wright, and Itasca Counties, MN
Zone: 4A / 3B
|
Post by windgypsy on May 30, 2023 9:43:07 GMT -6
Minnesota is an unlimited buck state, you’re only limited by the number of friends and family members who will let you punch their tag. I had a friend who killed 3 bucks in a season that were bigger than any buck I’ve ever shot. 2 firearm season and 1 muzzleloader. WI allows every hunter to take a buck with archery equipment and with a firearm, and they also allow party hunting with firearms...which also gets abused by a likely small percentage of hunters. Yet, many MN deer hunters wish for WI's season and rule structure. I hope your friend was following the rules regarding legal cross tagging. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be a friend of mine. I'd definitely trade regs with WI still. In my friend's case, he followed the intention of the party hunting rules although I know there are definitely plenty of situations where wife/mom sitting at home get their tag punched. There are lots of ways the party tag system gets abused but even the common and frequently legal "everyone shoot everything until we fill our 15 tags" approach can be cringe inducing depending on context. Like when it comes time to actually put the meat to use and it's clear the majority of people just wanted to kill as much as possible but not deal with it afterwards.
|
|
|
Post by smsmith on May 30, 2023 10:02:19 GMT -6
WI allows every hunter to take a buck with archery equipment and with a firearm, and they also allow party hunting with firearms...which also gets abused by a likely small percentage of hunters. Yet, many MN deer hunters wish for WI's season and rule structure. I hope your friend was following the rules regarding legal cross tagging. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be a friend of mine. I'd definitely trade regs with WI still. In my friend's case, he followed the intention of the party hunting rules although I know there are definitely plenty of situations where wife/mom sitting at home get their tag punched. There are lots of ways the party tag system gets abused but even the common and frequently legal "everyone shoot everything until we fill our 15 tags" approach can be cringe inducing depending on context. Like when it comes time to actually put the meat to use and it's clear the majority of people just wanted to kill as much as possible but not deal with it afterwards. Allowing a bunch of slob hunters (using your description) to all shoot 2 bucks, and to cross tag for others? I'll pass on that WI regulation. MN's buck hunting would become significantly worse than it already is.
|
|
windgypsy
Full Member
Posts: 126
Likes: 162
Location: Kanabec, Wright, and Itasca Counties, MN
Zone: 4A / 3B
|
Post by windgypsy on May 30, 2023 11:25:45 GMT -6
I'd definitely trade regs with WI still. In my friend's case, he followed the intention of the party hunting rules although I know there are definitely plenty of situations where wife/mom sitting at home get their tag punched. There are lots of ways the party tag system gets abused but even the common and frequently legal "everyone shoot everything until we fill our 15 tags" approach can be cringe inducing depending on context. Like when it comes time to actually put the meat to use and it's clear the majority of people just wanted to kill as much as possible but not deal with it afterwards. Allowing a bunch of slob hunters (using your description) to all shoot 2 bucks, and to cross tag for others? I'll pass on that WI regulation. MN's buck hunting would become significantly worse than it already is. You can already shoot one (or more) with a bow and one (or more) with a gun in MN via party hunting. I'm just guessing that more bucks would be saved by a firearms season being after peak rut than would be killed in gun season by someone who isn't party hunting and already killed one with a bow. I very well could be wrong! 2022 stats - 9.5k antlered bucks taken during archery and 74-75k during rifle. total avg success rate of 32%. Let's say all 9.5K successful archery hunters also pursued bucks during rifle and use the 32% success rate. That's about 3k more bucks taken by these hunters. But, we know not all archery hunters also hunt with firearms AND we know a lot of archery hunters already hunt firearm season after being successful due to the ability to party hunt so the 3k number is high. 3k is 4% of 75k. If the rifle hunt was held after the peak of the rut, my guess is that 1 and 2 YO buck odds of surviving increase by more than 4% (which again, is an inflated #).
|
|
|
Post by smsmith on May 30, 2023 11:32:39 GMT -6
Allowing a bunch of slob hunters (using your description) to all shoot 2 bucks, and to cross tag for others? I'll pass on that WI regulation. MN's buck hunting would become significantly worse than it already is. You can already shoot one (or more) with a bow and one (or more) with a gun in MN via party hunting. I'm just guessing that more bucks would be saved by a firearms season being after peak rut than would be killed in gun season by someone who isn't party hunting and already killed one with a bow. I very well could be wrong! I'm sure there is no way to prove it one way or the other, but I'd guess that much, much less than 50% of deer hunters shoot multiple bucks in MN via party hunting. Make it so each deer hunter can buy two buck tags and I'd wager that many, many more bucks would die than via the current party hunting regs. I'd support moving the firearm season back a week or two. That'll never happen in MN, but I'd support it...
|
|
windgypsy
Full Member
Posts: 126
Likes: 162
Location: Kanabec, Wright, and Itasca Counties, MN
Zone: 4A / 3B
|
Post by windgypsy on May 30, 2023 11:39:58 GMT -6
You can already shoot one (or more) with a bow and one (or more) with a gun in MN via party hunting. I'm just guessing that more bucks would be saved by a firearms season being after peak rut than would be killed in gun season by someone who isn't party hunting and already killed one with a bow. I very well could be wrong! I'm sure there is no way to prove it one way or the other, but I'd guess that much, much less than 50% of deer hunters shoot multiple bucks in MN via party hunting. Make it so each deer hunter can buy two buck tags and I'd wager that many, many more bucks would die than via the current party hunting regs. I'd support moving the firearm season back a week or two. That'll never happen in MN, but I'd support it... I edited in more thoughts with numbers in my prior post. Also worth acknowledging that it's tough to know how many bucks would get shot with a bow that otherwise might have gotten passed if a hunter didn't know they had another tag during rifle season without relying on a party.
|
|
|
Post by caveman on May 30, 2023 15:07:38 GMT -6
Allowing a bunch of slob hunters (using your description) to all shoot 2 bucks, and to cross tag for others? I'll pass on that WI regulation. MN's buck hunting would become significantly worse than it already is. You can already shoot one (or more) with a bow and one (or more) with a gun in MN via party hunting. I'm just guessing that more bucks would be saved by a firearms season being after peak rut than would be killed in gun season by someone who isn't party hunting and already killed one with a bow. I very well could be wrong! 2022 stats - 9.5k antlered bucks taken during archery and 74-75k during rifle. total avg success rate of 32%. Let's say all 9.5K successful archery hunters also pursued bucks during rifle and use the 32% success rate. That's about 3k more bucks taken by these hunters. But, we know not all archery hunters also hunt with firearms AND we know a lot of archery hunters already hunt firearm season after being successful due to the ability to party hunt so the 3k number is high. 3k is 4% of 75k. If the rifle hunt was held after the peak of the rut, my guess is that 1 and 2 YO buck odds of surviving increase by more than 4% (which again, is an inflated #). Not all of us can shoot even 1 buck. Should we not be allowed to have venison? Should we not be allowed to help get that venison by supplying a tag?
I got 1 good shot at a buck last year, and missed. Fuck all this talk that the only thing limiting the number of bucks a hunter can shoot is the number of friends and family they can get tags from. Many of us suck at hunting too.
|
|
|
Post by Sandbur on May 30, 2023 17:18:41 GMT -6
You can already shoot one (or more) with a bow and one (or more) with a gun in MN via party hunting. I'm just guessing that more bucks would be saved by a firearms season being after peak rut than would be killed in gun season by someone who isn't party hunting and already killed one with a bow. I very well could be wrong! 2022 stats - 9.5k antlered bucks taken during archery and 74-75k during rifle. total avg success rate of 32%. Let's say all 9.5K successful archery hunters also pursued bucks during rifle and use the 32% success rate. That's about 3k more bucks taken by these hunters. But, we know not all archery hunters also hunt with firearms AND we know a lot of archery hunters already hunt firearm season after being successful due to the ability to party hunt so the 3k number is high. 3k is 4% of 75k. If the rifle hunt was held after the peak of the rut, my guess is that 1 and 2 YO buck odds of surviving increase by more than 4% (which again, is an inflated #). Not all of us can shoot even 1 buck. Should we not be allowed to have venison? Should we not be allowed to help get that venison by supplying a tag?
I got 1 good shot at a buck last year, and missed. Fuck all this talk that the only thing limiting the number of bucks a hunter can shoot is the number of friends and family they can get tags from. Many of us suck at hunting too.
I think that much of our opinion on APR’s or party hunting or quality deer management is based on our experiences. Things look and are very different for those who see multiple bucks in a season or even in a few days versus those who hunt days or all week to see even a legal deer of any sort. I have hunted both situations. At my age, my focus is on venison above a personal best on a buck. Things were different for me for about two decades.
|
|
windgypsy
Full Member
Posts: 126
Likes: 162
Location: Kanabec, Wright, and Itasca Counties, MN
Zone: 4A / 3B
|
Post by windgypsy on May 30, 2023 20:10:13 GMT -6
You can already shoot one (or more) with a bow and one (or more) with a gun in MN via party hunting. I'm just guessing that more bucks would be saved by a firearms season being after peak rut than would be killed in gun season by someone who isn't party hunting and already killed one with a bow. I very well could be wrong! 2022 stats - 9.5k antlered bucks taken during archery and 74-75k during rifle. total avg success rate of 32%. Let's say all 9.5K successful archery hunters also pursued bucks during rifle and use the 32% success rate. That's about 3k more bucks taken by these hunters. But, we know not all archery hunters also hunt with firearms AND we know a lot of archery hunters already hunt firearm season after being successful due to the ability to party hunt so the 3k number is high. 3k is 4% of 75k. If the rifle hunt was held after the peak of the rut, my guess is that 1 and 2 YO buck odds of surviving increase by more than 4% (which again, is an inflated #). Not all of us can shoot even 1 buck. Should we not be allowed to have venison? Should we not be allowed to help get that venison by supplying a tag?
I got 1 good shot at a buck last year, and missed. Fuck all this talk that the only thing limiting the number of bucks a hunter can shoot is the number of friends and family they can get tags from. Many of us suck at hunting too.
There's some mental gymnastics going on if anything I said about what the legal limitations for harvest are could be construed as what hunters actually harvest. It's got nothing to do with "being allowed to have venison" but i'll touch on that idea. A couple posts up Bwoods11 said "In some counties in SW MN they issue more substantially more buck tags than there are bucks in the county" so clearly everyone with a tag cant be allowed to have a buck "for venison". For every buck that gets shot by someone who didn't put their tag on it there is one less buck on the landscape for someone to tag themselves. I'd rather there were more bucks on the landscape for hunters to have encounters with and have higher odds of tagging their own buck than allowing individuals to shoot multiple bucks. Ironically, it's often people with the worst hunting pushing for the regulations that contribute to making it that way. It's like they never coulda thunk that regulations that make it harder for any buck to avoid getting killed by them or their party do the same for hundreds of thousands of other hunters. I'll concede that there are parts of the state where the regulations make much less difference on the quality of hunting. I'm new on this forum but i thought i read a post from you saying you killed 3 or 4 deer one year and were shooting for more the following year? If that was you, you must not suck at hunting too bad!
|
|
|
Post by Bwoods11 on May 30, 2023 20:24:39 GMT -6
If the hunting is poor in parts of Minnesota then the DNR should not issue tags ? How will it get any better? Zone 1 sucks from what I heard? But nobody wants to suffer by not hunting or by strictly limiting tags.
|
|
windgypsy
Full Member
Posts: 126
Likes: 162
Location: Kanabec, Wright, and Itasca Counties, MN
Zone: 4A / 3B
|
Post by windgypsy on May 30, 2023 20:40:21 GMT -6
If the hunting is poor in parts of Minnesota then the DNR should not issue tags ? How will it get any better? Zone 1 sucks from what I heard? But nobody wants to suffer by not hunting or by strictly limiting tags. I don’t know if that is in reference to my post but I wouldn’t advocate for not issuing buck tags OTC unless things were much more dire.
|
|
|
Post by caveman on May 30, 2023 21:05:03 GMT -6
Not all of us can shoot even 1 buck. Should we not be allowed to have venison? Should we not be allowed to help get that venison by supplying a tag?
I got 1 good shot at a buck last year, and missed. Fuck all this talk that the only thing limiting the number of bucks a hunter can shoot is the number of friends and family they can get tags from. Many of us suck at hunting too.
There's some mental gymnastics going on if anything I said about what the legal limitations for harvest are could be construed as what hunters actually harvest. It's got nothing to do with "being allowed to have venison" but i'll touch on that idea. A couple posts up Bwoods11 said "In some counties in SW MN they issue more substantially more buck tags than there are bucks in the county" so clearly everyone with a tag cant be allowed to have a buck "for venison". For every buck that gets shot by someone who didn't put their tag on it there is one less buck on the landscape for someone to tag themselves. I'd rather there were more bucks on the landscape for hunters to have encounters with and have higher odds of tagging their own buck than allowing individuals to shoot multiple bucks. Ironically, it's often people with the worst hunting pushing for the regulations that contribute to making it that way. It's like they never coulda thunk that regulations that make it harder for any buck to avoid getting killed by them or their party do the same for hundreds of thousands of other hunters. I'll concede that there are parts of the state where the regulations make much less difference on the quality of hunting. I'm new on this forum but i thought i read a post from you saying you killed 3 or 4 deer one year and were shooting for more the following year? If that was you, you must not suck at hunting too bad! That was me. Blind squirrels find nuts once in awhile. Still missed that buck. Damn it.
I would rather have the option to have someone else fill my tag. Let the youth hunter kill 2 bucks if I give them my tag. Let the archery hunter keep hunting to the end of their season if I give them my tag.
Do I allow my buck tag to be party hunted on opening day? No. The last day of muzzy season for someone that wants to hunt archery until after Christmas? Sure.
|
|
|
Post by caveman on May 30, 2023 21:16:54 GMT -6
If the hunting is poor in parts of Minnesota then the DNR should not issue tags ? How will it get any better? Zone 1 sucks from what I heard? But nobody wants to suffer by not hunting or by strictly limiting tags. Some parts are already bucks-only and the deer numbers do not recover. Wolves and winter. Only global warming and wolf hunting will make it better. The hunters have no control over either. Might as well not suffer further by not hunting at all.
|
|
|
Post by Bwoods11 on May 31, 2023 8:18:47 GMT -6
If the hunting is poor in parts of Minnesota then the DNR should not issue tags ? How will it get any better? Zone 1 sucks from what I heard? But nobody wants to suffer by not hunting or by strictly limiting tags. I don’t know if that is in reference to my post but I wouldn’t advocate for not issuing buck tags OTC unless things were much more dire. Not necessarily directed at your post. I’ve been pushing for more limited tags for years.. in counties that are mostly farm ground. There’s limited cover and it’s a miracle if a buck survives 2-3 years. North Dakota and South Dakota limit buck tags in these types of open farm country habitat . It’s pretty obvious you have to . As far as Zone 1. It’s not all wolves and weather that’s all I’m going to say !
|
|
windgypsy
Full Member
Posts: 126
Likes: 162
Location: Kanabec, Wright, and Itasca Counties, MN
Zone: 4A / 3B
|
Post by windgypsy on May 31, 2023 9:16:41 GMT -6
I don’t know if that is in reference to my post but I wouldn’t advocate for not issuing buck tags OTC unless things were much more dire. Not necessarily directed at your post. I’ve been pushing for more limited tags for years.. in counties that are mostly farm ground. There’s limited cover and it’s a miracle if a buck survives 2-3 years. North Dakota and South Dakota limit buck tags in these types of open farm country habitat . It’s pretty obvious you have to . As far as Zone 1. It’s not all wolves and weather that’s all I’m going to say ! I don't hunt there but have a fair bit in ND. I like the idea of just making it harder to kill animals before limiting buck tags. I.E. before making it so some folks cant get a tag at all i'd prefer to end party hunting, take firearm dates out of the rut, APR, no crossbows, etc. [edit to add: I'd think removing party hunting could reduce the number of deer killed in deer drives notably] I've hunted in itasca county a fair bit the last 4 years at my parents land. My general take away from what I've seen is that hunters do have an impact but not as huge as further south. Age class isn't so much an issue as is population so I'd much rather they got rid of doe take. Unfortunately they found CWD deer in town in grand rapids so it went from lottery doe to 2 deer limit last year and the damn doe take doubled. Hunter "conservationists" at work..
|
|