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Post by Freeborn on Jul 15, 2022 5:55:13 GMT -6
I wrote this on another site.....but wanted to ask advice here too. This has been a great adventure for me. . in the two or three years prior to last summer. Damn Pigweed was foiling every attempt at growing my tillage plots. I always thought tillage was what it took to be a "good farmer". Learned the hard way it ain't necessarily so. I spent many hours reading everything I could, and watched many hours of video, and more.....on no till and regenerative farming practices and committed myself to giving it a try last August. After a drought of a summer.....I got my drill....nuked everything....applied Libery herbicides where needed, and planted 100 lbs of cereal rye and 34 lbs of a ten seed mix into my land. The very day I finished seeding into the dry dirt.....it rained......and then rained some more and it was almost like unreal weather since then. Lucky.....and timely. I'm now nearly a year later......into mid July after a great winter rye and clover spring and early summer growth. No signs of pigweed in my plots yet.....other than about 3 plants in random areas. (knock on wood) Weather has been good for growing things. I rolled my rye a little early....but with rain in the forcast....I wanted to fill out my plots with beneficial brasica seeds and keep the pigweed "crowded out" with better things. I just drilled a GCC "fall release" crop into six acres and a similar brasica "home brew" into another 3 acres. With the recent rains.....I'm sure these seeds will take hold. I have a decent stand of red and white clover developing throughout these plots as well as some various beans, buckwheat and other seeds from the GCC "summer release" which I planted in early June. I feel I do not have a long enough growing season to plant both the summer release and the fall release type crops. That was a bit of a expensive mistake on my part.....but if it may have prevented pig weed from growing this year.....then so be it. Next year I believe I will let my winter rye go until mid July (or just before it gets ripe - whichever comes first) before terminating with my crimper or flail mower (both work well) and planting my fall Brassica mix. I plan to either drill or broadcast 100 lbs / acre of rye into my plots (ten acres) this fall.....and have 1000 lbs of bagged Elbon rye sitting in my shed and ready to go. No more bin run seed for me! Here is my dillenmna: I don't know if I dare to drive though a good stand of turnips, collards, radish, and rape to drill that rye into the plots?? But.....I have had very poor success in broadcasting any grains (or other seeds for that matter) into my sandy soils without some tillage or at least cultipacking. Maybe having all that rye mulch will provide what is needed to broadcast tha newt rye??? Dunno. I'm inclined to try some of each this year (broadcasting and drilling) and learn from my efforts for next year. I do feel that the rye is an intregal part of my ability to control the pigweeds. And I plan to focus on that rye above all other efforts. I would even consider drilling the rye into my land in spring....but I dont get back to MN (from AZ) until Mid-May each year......and that Rye is the first thing my deer are on when the snow is gone.....and it's already providing some level of weed control and nutrition to some very hungry deer, when I get back to MN. (according to my cell cameras). Advice, experience, or thoughts about drilling or broadcasting cereal rye this fall are much appreciated.
BTW.....that Tar River Drill I bought has provided more satisfaction to me than any other implement I have owned....and I own a few.. Maybe my views could change....but I do not think so. I suppose I could say that about other brand of a 3 point drill too......the Tar River Saya 505 just became the first available at an affordable price for me. I got 30 acres of use so far....and it's been stellar. Thanks for any advice. . You have more experience in these things than me, but just some of my thoughts. Agreed, we don’t have a long enough growing season for all of those crops. We need to be a bit skeptical of what these southern experts recommend. Even what works for where I live , probably won’t work for you. I am not a fan of rye grass. However it has been ok in those tiny woods plots up north and I have seen deer use it in the spring. Our nephew lives just a few miles East of your land and he said they had 2.5 inches of rain since Sunday. Your crops should do great! I do believe these seed mixes may be a good idea in a rotation where you are wanting to build soil. Maybe a rotation of 1/3 build soil and rest soil and 2/3 food plot. You will need to drill the rye to get the results you want and I would not hesitate. I doubt the deer will be concerned if some of the greens have been packed by tire tracks, you will have more than enough to feed the deer. The hard part is it doesn't look good visually but I would not concern yourself with that. I run over my soybeans every year broadcasting rye and i Don't like it but it doesn't seem to bother the deer.
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Post by Foggy on Jul 15, 2022 6:59:45 GMT -6
^ Yeah....I guess I get concerned about smashing a few turnips and radishes. Likely worth It for the cover crops I gain via the rye. That is my end game.
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Post by smsmith on Jul 15, 2022 7:05:23 GMT -6
Drill baby drill
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Post by benmnwi on Jul 15, 2022 11:06:08 GMT -6
It might be a good test to pick one small area to do a side by side test. One with drilling rye through the brassicas and one without. I bet you won't see much of a difference by the time hunting season rolls around, but it would be interesting to see the difference for sure.
I planted a cover crop mix of oats and field peas early this spring in an area that I'll be planting to brassicas shortly. I like to have something growing before my July planting of brassicas both to build up the soil a little and to compete with the weeds. Planting winter rye the fall before in future planned brassica areas would likely provide a similar benefit, so I might give that a shot next year. I did that in one area this year and it is doing pretty well.
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Post by Sandbur on Jul 15, 2022 11:34:21 GMT -6
. You have more experience in these things than me, but just some of my thoughts. Agreed, we don’t have a long enough growing season for all of those crops. We need to be a bit skeptical of what these southern experts recommend. Even what works for where I live , probably won’t work for you. I am not a fan of rye grass. However it has been ok in those tiny woods plots up north and I have seen deer use it in the spring. Our nephew lives just a few miles East of your land and he said they had 2.5 inches of rain since Sunday. Your crops should do great! I do believe these seed mixes may be a good idea in a rotation where you are wanting to build soil. Maybe a rotation of 1/3 build soil and rest soil and 2/3 food plot. You will need to drill the rye to get the results you want and I would not hesitate. I doubt the deer will be concerned if some of the greens have been packed by tire tracks, you will have more than enough to feed the deer. The hard part is it doesn't look good visually but I would not concern yourself with that. I run over my soybeans every year broadcasting rye and i Don't like it but it doesn't seem to bother the deer. I didn’t word my post in a clear manner. I don’t feel the mixes are bad, but feel it is difficult to get two additional plantings in During one growing season and see reasonable growth in northern areas. It is good Tom has the time and equipment to modify and experiment with the plantings from the southern experts. Tom may find a modified mix of one planting works best for him. Or like you say, one plot gets a summer mix and one gets the fall mix.
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Post by smsmith on Jul 15, 2022 11:53:22 GMT -6
I don't know diddily about drilling and multi-cropping, but I would think if a guy grew winter rye and single cut red clover for a few years and then switched over to summer buckwheat and fall brassicas for a few years you'd build up the soil and draw/feed deer.
We had just started doing that on my folks' old place before life changed things.
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Post by Sandbur on Jul 15, 2022 11:59:52 GMT -6
I don't know diddily about drilling and multi-cropping, but I would think if a guy grew winter rye and single cut red clover for a few years and then switched over to summer buckwheat and fall brassicas for a few years you'd build up the soil and draw/feed deer. We had just started doing that on my folks' old place before life changed things. That is why I had mentioned the mammoth red clover. The farmers I know, turned it over or else took one cutting and then turned it over for a silage corn crop.
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Post by smsmith on Jul 15, 2022 12:06:37 GMT -6
I don't know diddily about drilling and multi-cropping, but I would think if a guy grew winter rye and single cut red clover for a few years and then switched over to summer buckwheat and fall brassicas for a few years you'd build up the soil and draw/feed deer. We had just started doing that on my folks' old place before life changed things. That is why I had mentioned the mammoth red clover. The farmers I know, turned it over or else took one cutting and then turned it over for a silage corn crop. I see at least as much red clover around here as alfalfa. I guess one local guy grows it for seed. Most of what I see gets cut for hay/silage in late summer/early fall. It seems like most of the fields of red clover then get terminated and then disked under late in fall or the following spring. There is at least one farmer in the area who is drilling everything. When he rotates red clover through, he'll cut and terminate in fall then drill his next crop the following spring. His fields look really good most years.
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Post by Foggy on Jul 15, 2022 12:07:41 GMT -6
My plans are evolving a bit for most of my deer land. What I now envision.....is:
1. Drilling a mix of Brassica each July (including Radish, PTT, Forage Collards, DER, Maybe others) into the previous years stand of remaining rye and clover......and then terminating the Rye at a similar time....depending on the maturity of the crop. (I can terminate Cereal Rye with Roller Crimper - preferred or via Cleth - or via Flail Mower)
2. Late August or Early Sept try to time Drilling 100 lbs of Cereal Rye into all plots and add 2.5 lbs each of red clover, GHR. Perhaps more brassica and or clover(s) as above depending on the germination in July.
3. In Spring.....Mow and or chemically treat weed issues as needed. Mow trails. Perhaps try a few new things on a small scale. Wait for Mid-July to come.....Let the rye and clover work it's magic
4. Play golf and enjoy life. Rinse and repeat with needed changes.
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Post by smsmith on Jul 15, 2022 12:16:03 GMT -6
My plans are evolving a bit for most of my deer land. What I now envision.....is: 1. Drilling a mix of Brassica each July (including Radish, PTT, Forage Collards, DER, Maybe others) into the previous years stand of remaining rye and clover......and then terminating the Rye at a similar time....depending on the maturity of the crop. (I can terminate Cereal Rye with Roller Crimper - preferred or via Cleth - or via Flail Mower) 2. Late August or Early Sept try to time Drilling 100 lbs of Cereal Rye into all plots and add 2.5 lbs each of red clover, GHR. Perhaps more brassica and or clover(s) as above depending on the germination in July. 3. In Spring.....Mow and or chemically treat weed issues as needed. Mow trails. Perhaps try a few new things on a small scale. Wait for Mid-July to come.....Let the rye and clover work it's magic 4. Play golf and enjoy life. Rinse and repeat with needed changes. That sounds like a good plan to me
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Post by Foggy on Jul 15, 2022 12:20:45 GMT -6
That point # 3 above is pretty broad. But it needs to be.....as conditions are so variable. This year I panted some peas and beans in June......and while I thought it was too short of a growing season.....now it appears they are coming on strong. I may do more of that next June.....depending on what I have for seeds on hand and how much time I have to play with such things, etc. Today I just wanted to look at my plots and check for rainfall since Tuesday. I got a half inch of rain. Nice! Last fall I had a 1/2 acre clover plot with I did not burn down nor plant anything into it. It was about the only plot I had any hopes for due to last summers drought. And it was a good draw for last season. Directly alongside this plot is another 3/4 acre plot which was infested with pigweed and of which I was the most concerned last year. This year it was really wet in spring......and grasses threatened to over take it. Sprayed with cleth and the clover came back in the wet spots and it remains free of pigweed to date. (the rye worked it's magic). The clover appears nice here to and some of the various beans are growing. I have on Tuesday planted all of the above plots into brassica and await the germination and growth Today the "old" clover plot was being choked with knotweeds since last Tuesday. Amazing how quickly they were taking over that clover. So I decided to mow that clover short.....and now anticipate the Brasica will come in.....floowed by the clover below. At least that is my dream. Things change sometimes by the day. I think I got the right pics below.
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Post by smsmith on Jul 15, 2022 12:38:25 GMT -6
^^^I think pic #2 is of smartweed/lady's thumb. That shit will take over in a hurry. I had some pop up in an established clover plot this year. No idea where the seeds came from. Deer do eat it, but I don't care. The first batch I found I hit with Imox/Nitrosurf. Knocked it right out. The second batch I found I hit with Basagran/surfactant. I just checked it today and it too appears to be dying. The clover in the area wasn't impacted by either dose of chemical.
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Post by Foggy on Jul 15, 2022 12:56:34 GMT -6
^^^I think pic #2 is of smartweed/lady's thumb. That shit will take over in a hurry. I had some pop up in an established clover plot this year. No idea where the seeds came from. Deer do eat it, but I don't care. The first batch I found I hit with Imox/Nitrosurf. Knocked it right out. The second batch I found I hit with Basagran/surfactant. I just checked it today and it too appears to be dying. The clover in the area wasn't impacted by either dose of chemical. I did a quick ID on my phone app INaturalist. Then googled to determine it would kill by mowing. I figured if I mowed short.....perhaps the Brassica I planted on Tuesday would pop up and out compete this chit......follwed by the clover. I cut it pretty short. We shall see.
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Post by smsmith on Jul 15, 2022 13:00:18 GMT -6
^^^I think pic #2 is of smartweed/lady's thumb. That shit will take over in a hurry. I had some pop up in an established clover plot this year. No idea where the seeds came from. Deer do eat it, but I don't care. The first batch I found I hit with Imox/Nitrosurf. Knocked it right out. The second batch I found I hit with Basagran/surfactant. I just checked it today and it too appears to be dying. The clover in the area wasn't impacted by either dose of chemical. I did a quick ID on my phone app INaturalist. Then googled to determine it would kill by mowing. I figured if I mowed short.....perhaps the Brassica I planted on Tuesday would pop up and out compete this chit......follwed by the clover. I cut it pretty short. We shall see. I just learned that knotweed and smartweed are the same thing. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolygonaceaeI have no idea if mowing will kill it or not.
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Post by smsmith on Jul 20, 2022 14:36:15 GMT -6
Well, it's July 20th and the neighbor's acreish plot is unplanted. It looks like a fairly decent chance of rain next week, so I'm thinking I'll re-spray that plot with gly tomorrow (assuming the wind dies down, sheesh) and maybe broadcast a brassica/annual clover mix on Monday. Trying to time rainfall this year hasn't worked well so far...
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