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Post by nhmountains on Apr 16, 2021 3:14:10 GMT -6
I’d say 50/50 but it could be much higher if you don’t get cold into the low 20s. Last year we had one day go down to 16 and that was in May. One thing I’ve seen on videos is to put a small brown paper lunch bag over the graft. Tape the bottom around the trunk. Cut off a small pie of two corners to let it breath. That’ll create a small greenhouse that may help unless it gets too hot. You need a couple week window for the graft area to callous and the new leaves from getting frozen.
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 16, 2021 4:07:34 GMT -6
I'm sure I could look this up online, but I'll ask you guys since I need an answer for Minnesota. Do you think we are ready to topwork trees in southeast minnesota yet? My friend is coming home this weekend and every year we topwork some of the tiny crappy crabapples on his farm. We always do this in May with good luck, but I've never tried it this early. Do you think it will work or would it be a wasted grafting day? I usually check with Stu! I will wait awhile. It seems like mid May is when I have top worked, but I am 150 -200 ?? Miles north of you.
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Post by badgerfowl on Apr 16, 2021 4:19:16 GMT -6
I’d say 50/50 but it could be much higher if you don’t get cold into the low 20s. Last year we had one day go down to 16 and that was in May. One thing I’ve seen on videos is to put a small brown paper lunch bag over the graft. Tape the bottom around the trunk. Cut off a small pie of two corners to let it breath. That’ll create a small greenhouse that may help unless it gets too hot. You need a couple week window for the graft area to callous and the new leaves from getting frozen. Not sure exactly where his land is but our river bottom place east of SE MN is showing 25 early next week which means probably 20. I haven’t been up there lately but apples will be toast with that. Will probably check tomorrow.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 16, 2021 6:21:50 GMT -6
I'd probably wait at least a week or two Ben. 50/50 is possible I'd suppose. When freshly grafted scions get hit with temps in the 20s I think it decreases your odds a whole bunch.
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 16, 2021 6:25:41 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback. It is supposed to be 27 next week, so it would probably be best to wait.
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 19, 2021 20:12:28 GMT -6
My apple rootstocks this year are huge, so matching scion size to rootstock diameter is a little more difficult. Normally I graft a few inches above the soil line like everyone else, but this year if I want to match diameters on some of the trees I might have to graft a couple feet above the soil line. Is there any reason this wouldn't work or would I be better off grafting at the usual height with a scion that is smaller in diameter than the rootstock?
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Post by smsmith on Apr 19, 2021 20:24:50 GMT -6
I've done it both ways. Graft high to match scion size and lower so I don't have so much rootstock above the soil line. I have also grafted high and then planted the rootstock deep enough so there's only an inch or two above ground. Apple and pear rootstocks will send out more roots when you bury the stems/trunks. However, I have found that the deep planting slows top growth for a couple of years. It also seems leaving a bunch of rootstock growth above the soil line leads to initial slower growth (could be due to some other factor as well I suppose). What I've started doing when the rootstock is much larger than my scions is to go with a cleft graft and stick two scions in the cleft. If they both take and grow, I cut one off the following spring but leave an inch or so of scion growth. It seems leaving that extra scion helps heal the clefts more quickly. You can remove that stub at some point in the future.
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 19, 2021 20:34:33 GMT -6
That's a good idea I hadn't thought about. I think I will try that when there is a mismatch in size.
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 20, 2021 1:15:35 GMT -6
In cold climates, I have heard of deliberately grafting higher on the rootstock. The thoughts are that cold is more severe near the ground, and a more tender scion may survive with a higher graft.
Since reading this, I have not worried as much about height of the graft. Time will tell.
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Post by nhmountains on Apr 20, 2021 4:24:08 GMT -6
I've done it both ways. Graft high to match scion size and lower so I don't have so much rootstock above the soil line. I have also grafted high and then planted the rootstock deep enough so there's only an inch or two above ground. Apple and pear rootstocks will send out more roots when you bury the stems/trunks. However, I have found that the deep planting slows top growth for a couple of years. It also seems leaving a bunch of rootstock growth above the soil line leads to initial slower growth (could be due to some other factor as well I suppose). What I've started doing when the rootstock is much larger than my scions is to go with a cleft graft and stick two scions in the cleft. If they both take and grow, I cut one off the following spring but leave an inch or so of scion growth. It seems leaving that extra scion helps heal the clefts more quickly. You can remove that stub at some point in the future. I do mainly cleft grafts now and put two scions in. Usually by late summer they’ve healed up the wound and I can clip one then or I usually wait for the following February to use the clipping for scion.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 20, 2021 5:40:19 GMT -6
In cold climates, I have heard of deliberately grafting higher on the rootstock. The thoughts are that cold is more severe near the ground, and a more tender scion may survive with a higher graft. Since reading this, I have not worried as much about height of the graft. Time will tell. Assuming your rootstock is hardier than the variety grafted to it, that should work. I do believe grafting higher slows initial growth rate for a period of time, but that shouldn't impact long term survival.
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 20, 2021 6:15:50 GMT -6
In cold climates, I have heard of deliberately grafting higher on the rootstock. The thoughts are that cold is more severe near the ground, and a more tender scion may survive with a higher graft. Since reading this, I have not worried as much about height of the graft. Time will tell. Assuming your rootstock is hardier than the variety grafted to it, that should work. I do believe grafting higher slows initial growth rate for a period of time, but that shouldn't impact long term survival. I think the guys and gals in Canada feel slow growth is a good thing. They probably see less die back in new growth, especially if no or little fall growth.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 20, 2021 6:47:13 GMT -6
Assuming your rootstock is hardier than the variety grafted to it, that should work. I do believe grafting higher slows initial growth rate for a period of time, but that shouldn't impact long term survival. I think the guys and gals in Canada feel slow growth is a good thing. They probably see less die back in new growth, especially if no or little fall growth. I imagine there's a fine line between getting enough scion growth so it can survive the winter and getting growth too late in the year so scion growth doesn't harden off in time for winter. Their seasons narrow variety choice quite a bit. Much like Alaska, late maturing varieties just don't produce for the most part.
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 22, 2021 11:55:58 GMT -6
I grafted my rootstock last night and did about half by grafting higher up the rootstock trunk and half by using two scion a couple inches above the soil line. The scion you guys sent was in great shape and I think it will do well. It will be interesting to see how the growth compares on those two grafting plans. Even though the rootstock was much larger than normal I think it will do much better than the tiny rootstock from year.
I have some leftover scion that will be used on a few of my franken trees and also to topwork a couple seedling dolgos.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 23, 2021 6:10:30 GMT -6
My rootstocks from Burnt Ridge came yesterday. I was surprised when they arrived in a box about 4' long. The antonovkas are about that tall with probably 3/8" calipers or better. The ussurian pears are quite a bit smaller. 1/4" at best. It looks like a rainy day here today...good day to get my bench grafts done.
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