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Post by smsmith on Apr 7, 2023 5:58:10 GMT -6
This is what I've been doing when I top work wild crabs. Black lines = remove Red line = remove and bark graft with 3-4 scions (depends on caliper, I try to get one every 3/4"-1" around the trunk). It looks too big for cleft grafting to me. The nice horizontal limbs below where I've marked cuts could either be left alone (that's what I've been doing with most), or you could trim them back to around 6-12" from the trunk and cleft graft to something else. Some folks would leave one of the limbs that I marked with a black line for a nurse limb, then remove it the following year after the grafts take. That may be the wiser idea for somebody doing this the first time.
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Post by Sandbur on Apr 7, 2023 6:15:10 GMT -6
This is what I've been doing when I top work wild crabs. Black lines = remove Red line = remove and bark graft with 3-4 scions (depends on caliper, I try to get one every 3/4"-1" around the trunk). It looks too big for cleft grafting to me. The nice horizontal limbs below where I've marked cuts could either be left alone (that's what I've been doing with most), or you could trim them back to around 6-12" from the trunk and cleft graft to something else. Some folks would leave one of the limbs that I marked with a black line for a nurse limb, then remove it the following year after the grafts take. That may be the wiser idea for somebody doing this the first time. I have done both clefts and bark grafts on those, but usually do a cleft. I have an old butcher knife and hammer. I seal the top with toilet bowl wax and use e tape around the base. Pictures are posted above. No right or wrong way. A Chevy or ford can get you to town and occasionally one fails. Same thing!
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Post by smsmith on Apr 7, 2023 8:46:02 GMT -6
This is what I've been doing when I top work wild crabs. Black lines = remove Red line = remove and bark graft with 3-4 scions (depends on caliper, I try to get one every 3/4"-1" around the trunk). It looks too big for cleft grafting to me. The nice horizontal limbs below where I've marked cuts could either be left alone (that's what I've been doing with most), or you could trim them back to around 6-12" from the trunk and cleft graft to something else. Some folks would leave one of the limbs that I marked with a black line for a nurse limb, then remove it the following year after the grafts take. That may be the wiser idea for somebody doing this the first time. I have done both clefts and bark grafts on those, but usually do a cleft. I have an old butcher knife and hammer. I seal the top with toilet bowl wax and use e tape around the base. Pictures are posted above. No right or wrong way. A Chevy or ford can get you to town and occasionally one fails. Same thing! Whatever way works is the best way. I can't tell the diameter on Reagan's tree. I generally avoid cleft grafts on anything much over 1.5" wide. They just seem to not heal that well for me. Maybe I don't use large enough scions, I don't know.
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 7, 2023 10:54:38 GMT -6
I've never had great luck topworking large diameter trees even when using the wax coating to seal the cut area. When I topwork a tree like that, I cleft graft to a branch that is only a little larger than the scion. Basically the same thing I do when bench grafting small rootstock.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 7, 2023 10:59:30 GMT -6
I've never had great luck topworking large diameter trees even when using the wax coating to seal the cut area. When I topwork a tree like that, I cleft graft to a branch that is only a little larger than the scion. Basically the same thing I do when bench grafting small rootstock. So cut off the trunk and the other branch (black line) and cleft graft to the other branch (red line)?
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Post by Reagan on Apr 7, 2023 18:29:24 GMT -6
This is what I've been doing when I top work wild crabs. Black lines = remove Red line = remove and bark graft with 3-4 scions (depends on caliper, I try to get one every 3/4"-1" around the trunk). It looks too big for cleft grafting to me. The nice horizontal limbs below where I've marked cuts could either be left alone (that's what I've been doing with most), or you could trim them back to around 6-12" from the trunk and cleft graft to something else. Some folks would leave one of the limbs that I marked with a black line for a nurse limb, then remove it the following year after the grafts take. That may be the wiser idea for somebody doing this the first time. Red line diameter is about 1 1/8. I think I can cleft it. What about branches below the black. Leave them or remove?
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Post by smsmith on Apr 7, 2023 18:43:46 GMT -6
This is what I've been doing when I top work wild crabs. Black lines = remove Red line = remove and bark graft with 3-4 scions (depends on caliper, I try to get one every 3/4"-1" around the trunk). It looks too big for cleft grafting to me. The nice horizontal limbs below where I've marked cuts could either be left alone (that's what I've been doing with most), or you could trim them back to around 6-12" from the trunk and cleft graft to something else. Some folks would leave one of the limbs that I marked with a black line for a nurse limb, then remove it the following year after the grafts take. That may be the wiser idea for somebody doing this the first time. Red line diameter is about 1 1/8. I think I can cleft it. What about branches below the black. Leave them or remove? How far above the ground are they? They have very nice horizontal angles coming off the trunk. They'd make nice scrape branches. They'd also make nice structures for adding other varieties if you wanted to make a Frankentree. For a wildlife tree, I'd just leave them as they are.
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Post by Reagan on Apr 7, 2023 18:52:33 GMT -6
They are about 3-4 ft high. This tree was swallowed up by a patch of multi floral rose. I think it protected the tree but I removed it a year or two ago.
This one will be on my grafting list this weekend.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 7, 2023 19:02:24 GMT -6
They are about 3-4 ft high. This tree was swallowed up by a patch of multi floral rose. I think it protected the tree but I removed it a year or two ago. This one will be on my grafting list this weekend. As weird as it is to say, I kind of miss multiflora rose.
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Post by Reagan on Apr 8, 2023 18:44:25 GMT -6
They are about 3-4 ft high. This tree was swallowed up by a patch of multi floral rose. I think it protected the tree but I removed it a year or two ago. This one will be on my grafting list this weekend. As weird as it is to say, I kind of miss multiflora rose. There is so much rose everywhere I thought is was native most of my life. I think I read in an old quality whitetails mag that it was invasive. I’ve hunted some great spots that were dominated by it. I’ve been letting some go and other spots I’ve been attacking it. I have a love hate with it.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 8, 2023 19:24:42 GMT -6
As weird as it is to say, I kind of miss multiflora rose. There is so much rose everywhere I thought is was native most of my life. I think I read in an old quality whitetails mag that it was invasive. I’ve hunted some great spots that were dominated by it. I’ve been letting some go and other spots I’ve been attacking it. I have a love hate with it. It is considered an invasive (now). Back in the day SWCD/DNRs were selling the stuff as a "beneficial wildlife/soil shrub". Dragging a deer out of a patch the stuff will make you hate it. I liked MFR for the dense/impenetrable cover it provides. When it blooms in the spring it's awfully impressive
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Post by benmnwi on Apr 8, 2023 21:47:04 GMT -6
I've never had great luck topworking large diameter trees even when using the wax coating to seal the cut area. When I topwork a tree like that, I cleft graft to a branch that is only a little larger than the scion. Basically the same thing I do when bench grafting small rootstock. So cut off the trunk and the other branch (black line) and cleft graft to the other branch (red line)? Yes, I typically graft to similar sized branches and then cut off other branches once the graft is growing. Sometimes I graft a bunch of small branches and hope for the best. Normally I have a few that take.
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Post by wiscbooners89 on Apr 9, 2023 5:57:27 GMT -6
They are about 3-4 ft high. This tree was swallowed up by a patch of multi floral rose. I think it protected the tree but I removed it a year or two ago. This one will be on my grafting list this weekend. As weird as it is to say, I kind of miss multiflora rose. Part of our property is overun with it. The forester said we needed to get rid of it ASAP, but the deer bed in it like crazy. This section of land is where we always get the biggest most mature bucks on. For now, it's not going anywhere.
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Post by smsmith on Apr 9, 2023 6:31:35 GMT -6
As weird as it is to say, I kind of miss multiflora rose. Part of our property is overun with it. The forester said we needed to get rid of it ASAP, but the deer bed in it like crazy. This section of land is where we always get the biggest most mature bucks on. For now, it's not going anywhere. I think rose rosette disease will probably control MFR long term.
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Post by nhmountains on Apr 9, 2023 15:14:03 GMT -6
I've never had great luck topworking large diameter trees even when using the wax coating to seal the cut area. When I topwork a tree like that, I cleft graft to a branch that is only a little larger than the scion. Basically the same thing I do when bench grafting small rootstock. I’d bark graft in scions every 2.5-3” around the cut. Let them grow at least a year and then trim then as the top closes up. On that one that Stu showed I’d do 3 bark grafts. My problems with top working on my land is the bear smell and eat the wax and destroy the grafts.
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