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Post by kl9 on Nov 22, 2017 20:48:21 GMT -6
Don't you learn anything from the past? Apparently not Not sure what you mean. Can you explain? Your approach is what I mean. Has failed in WI, IL and other states and has cost them millions along the way. Failed in MN just this last year
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Post by smsmith on Nov 22, 2017 20:54:20 GMT -6
Not sure what you mean. Can you explain? Your approach is what I mean. Has failed in WI, IL and other states and has cost them millions along the way. Failed in MN just this last year To be fair, nobody has ever been able to kill all the deer in a 10 mile radius of a CWD positive. It probably isn't doable, but we could certainly get closer than we have so far. The "problem" is private land ownership. If the government just arbitrarily decided they're gonna wipe the herd out in that area no matter what...it may indeed work to prevent or at least slow the spread. We'll never know
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Post by benmnwi on Nov 22, 2017 20:55:16 GMT -6
I also think banning the transport of any live deer in the state would be a rational step to slow the spread. We likely can't get rid of it here, but we sure don't need to speed up the spread to every other corner of the state.
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Post by sd51555 on Nov 22, 2017 20:58:07 GMT -6
Your approach is what I mean. Has failed in WI, IL and other states and has cost them millions along the way. Failed in MN just this last year To be fair, nobody has ever been able to kill all the deer in a 10 mile radius of a CWD positive. It probably isn't doable, but we could certainly get closer than we have so far. The "problem" is private land ownership. If the government just arbitrarily decided they're gonna wipe the herd out in that area no matter what...it may indeed work to prevent or at least slow the spread. We'll never know It scares the shit out of me that you're absolutely right, and the DNR feels the same way when it comes to CWD, and about every other land issue out there today. It's clearly stated in many of their reports.
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Post by smsmith on Nov 22, 2017 21:00:15 GMT -6
I also think banning the transport of any live deer in the state would be a rational step to slow the spread. We likely can't get rid of it here, but we sure don't need to speed up the spread to every other corner of the state. I agree. I also would stop the transport of any dead deer or any part of a dead deer into the state from any other state (whether that state has CWD or not). CWD prions have been found in the meat. Throw out a chunk of CWD+ freezer burnt roast from that out of state deer and you just started a new hot spot. That would be highly unpopular though. Hence the half assed and ineffectual approach we find ourselves stuck with. Either do everything within our power to stop/slow the spread...or do nothing. My $.02
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Post by mnfish on Nov 22, 2017 21:03:02 GMT -6
Not sure what you mean. Can you explain? Your approach is what I mean. Has failed in WI, IL and other states and has cost them millions along the way. Failed in MN just this last year EXACTLY!!!! I posted that not because I believe it but more to make a point. The disease is out and can not be stopped or removed from the system. Outlawing deer farms for the sake of controlling CWD spread is as non productive as trying to kill all deer within a 10 radius. IMHO, we all need to stop the blame game. Its accomplishing nothing.
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Post by kl9 on Nov 22, 2017 21:03:45 GMT -6
Your approach is what I mean. Has failed in WI, IL and other states and has cost them millions along the way. Failed in MN just this last year To be fair, nobody has ever been able to kill all the deer in a 10 mile radius of a CWD positive. It probably isn't doable, but we could certainly get closer than we have so far. The "problem" is private land ownership. If the government just arbitrarily decided they're gonna wipe the herd out in that area no matter what...it may indeed work to prevent or at least slow the spread. We'll never know I would agree that in theory it could work. But the impracticalities you mention make the effort futile and I think quite frankly stupid. I recall a study that theorized doing the sharpshooting MN did could actually exacerbate the spread due to dislocating deer due to shooting pressure as well as deer filtering into CWD ground zero due to new lower social pressure when shooting isn't occurring. I think this could be very well happened in Mn. The positives in forestville very likely weren't there last fall. They killed a ton of deer last fall in forestville and didn't find any then. Plus that area is quite a ways from ground zero
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Post by kl9 on Nov 22, 2017 21:04:24 GMT -6
Your approach is what I mean. Has failed in WI, IL and other states and has cost them millions along the way. Failed in MN just this last year EXACTLY!!!! I posted that not because I believe it but more to make a point. The disease is out and can not be stopped or removed from the system. Outlawing deer farms for the sake of controlling CWD spread is as non productive as trying to kill all deer within a 10 radius. IMHO, we all need to stop the blame game. Its accomplishing nothing. My apologies - I misunderstood
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Post by sd51555 on Nov 22, 2017 21:04:38 GMT -6
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Post by mnfish on Nov 22, 2017 21:05:08 GMT -6
I also think banning the transport of any live deer in the state would be a rational step to slow the spread. We likely can't get rid of it here, but we sure don't need to speed up the spread to every other corner of the state. I agree. I also would stop the transport of any dead deer or any part of a dead deer into the state from any other state (whether that state has CWD or not). CWD prions have been found in the meat. Throw out a chunk of CWD+ freezer burnt roast from that out of state deer and you just started a new hot spot. That would be highly unpopular though. Hence the half assed and ineffectual approach we find ourselves stuck with. Either do everything within our power to stop/slow the spread...or do nothing. My $.02 Couldn't agree more!!!
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Post by kl9 on Nov 22, 2017 21:11:39 GMT -6
However, Iwill add that I don't think there is any easier way for the disease to travel 500 miles than for a live infected deer to be driven in the back of a truck. Hunters carrying infected carcasses is a risk too, but I don't see it being quite as high as a live deer.
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Post by mnfish on Nov 22, 2017 21:12:39 GMT -6
EXACTLY!!!! I posted that not because I believe it but more to make a point. The disease is out and can not be stopped or removed from the system. Outlawing deer farms for the sake of controlling CWD spread is as non productive as trying to kill all deer within a 10 radius. IMHO, we all need to stop the blame game. Its accomplishing nothing. My apologies - I misunderstood Not at all man! I meant for it to come off that way. And I agree with you, we need to stop making the same mistakes. The high fence industry is very close to breeding deer that have CWD resistant genetics. The Bat knows more about this than I but imagine. Those deer genetics will be worth billions. Why aren't the state agencies involved in this approach? Tin foil hat theory coming....Mange was man engineered disease released into the wild (60's or 70's can't remember exactly) to control canine populations. Always fatal. CWD to control whitetail populations in cattle country out west?....hmmmm
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Post by mnfish on Nov 22, 2017 21:15:06 GMT -6
However, Iwill add that I don't think there is any easier way for the disease to travel 500 miles than for a live infected deer to be driven in the back of a truck. Hunters carrying infected carcasses is a risk too, but I don't see it being quite as high as a live deer. Prions are prions. Animal live or not. "Dirty" carcusess are actually just as much of a risk
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Post by kl9 on Nov 22, 2017 21:17:24 GMT -6
However, Iwill add that I don't think there is any easier way for the disease to travel 500 miles than for a live infected deer to be driven in the back of a truck. Hunters carrying infected carcasses is a risk too, but I don't see it being quite as high as a live deer. Prions are prions. Animal live or not. "Dirty" carcusess are actually just as much of a risk Yes but how many deer will that 1 live deer interact with vs how many deer will go over and interact with a dead deer carcass that is improperly disposed of? I don't know the answer but my bet is live deer is worse situation.
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Post by smsmith on Nov 22, 2017 21:18:09 GMT -6
However, Iwill add that I don't think there is any easier way for the disease to travel 500 miles than for a live infected deer to be driven in the back of a truck. Hunters carrying infected carcasses is a risk too, but I don't see it being quite as high as a live deer. I think that's a rationalization (we all do them). From a pure numbers standpoint, I'd have to believe the odds of a dead deer spreading the disease to new, distant areas are significantly higher.
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