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Post by badbrad on Feb 13, 2018 8:50:15 GMT -6
I got the perfect solution but it will never happen anymore. Go back to hunters choice system. Release hunters choice tags based on the number of deer they want killed. Allow the xbows to be used the same amount of time as verticals. Then the guys that get hunters choice let them decide how bad they want to shoot a deer. Most guys won't shoot that doe if it means they can't shoot a buck. If a doe walks by and it means shooting that deer burns their buck tag we will let a lot deer go. If a guy just wants meat and doesn't see a lot of deer then he can shoot that doe and then he is done. It was the perfect system and they broke the system. It keeps everyone happy. Ag auto forestry. They were not happy. They can lick my sweaty nut sack. What likely was happening is they just were not releasing enough hunters choice permits. Maybe they even give hunters choice with every tag and not have a drawing. Give the hunters choice proportional to the amount of deer you want killed. But don't let the guy whack does and then still hunt for bucks with a highly efficient x bow for 4 months. Make him decide how bad he wants that deer.
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Post by kl9 on Feb 13, 2018 8:51:58 GMT -6
If you limit the number of tags for each sex to fit a stated population/age structure goal you probably could do that. Although I certainly wouldn’t be for it. If the state can get the public to manage for state decided 'goals' you can kiss your 2.5 year old bucks good bye. You don't want crossbows in archery season on your neighbors farms. They will kill more of your young bucks. Wisconsin data supports thats line of thinking. I have neighbors that shoot spikes, which is illegal in my area. We still have a great crop of bucks for next year. It is a numbers game. We shoot no does
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Post by terrifictom on Feb 13, 2018 9:11:02 GMT -6
Here is the historical data of total buck and antlerless kill. If you look at total numbers they are almost steady with a little uptick. All that has happened is a shift in weapon choice.
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Post by badbrad on Feb 13, 2018 9:16:40 GMT -6
Here is the historical data of total buck and antlerless kill. If you look at total numbers they are almost steady with a little uptick. All that has happened is a shift in weapon choice. I sure hope we can trust those numbers. If we do trust the numbers then I think we can leave it the way it is. If only they went back to the check in stations and green paper. Then we would know.
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Post by terrifictom on Feb 13, 2018 9:19:47 GMT -6
Now look at that chart and tell me that crossbows are killing too many deer. I stand by my statement that it is greed by bowhunters not wanting to share the rut with any other group of hunters.
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Post by kl9 on Feb 13, 2018 9:21:53 GMT -6
Do you have the kill numbers broken down by weapon type?
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Post by terrifictom on Feb 13, 2018 9:22:34 GMT -6
Here is the historical data of total buck and antlerless kill. If you look at total numbers they are almost steady with a little uptick. All that has happened is a shift in weapon choice. I sure hope we can trust those numbers. If we do trust the numbers then I think we can leave it the way it is. If only they went back to the check in stations and green paper. Then we would know. Brad that is all we can go by. It was only a few years ago how every one thought that not having to register deer in person was the best thing to ever happen. I wasn't one of them.
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Post by Satchmo on Feb 13, 2018 9:25:28 GMT -6
The crossbow effect would be negligible in MN since we are a one-buck-limit state. IMHO. This eliminates the double dipping that you have in WI, and forces many guys to be choosier about the buck they shoot.
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Post by terrifictom on Feb 13, 2018 9:34:43 GMT -6
Do you have the kill numbers broken down by weapon type? Yes I do. The numbers are up for crossbows but that is because of the 13,000 hunters that shifted to crossbows. As bow hunters and gun hunters switch to crossbows your kill numbers will go up for crossbows. What I find interesting even with bowhunting losing that amount of hunters after the crossbow season started the bow kill remained fairly steady.
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Post by kabic on Feb 13, 2018 9:39:45 GMT -6
I was looking at that database for license sold information and could not find it...FYI all the charts can be broken down by county if you want to see that.
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Post by kl9 on Feb 13, 2018 9:46:25 GMT -6
So trad bow buck kills fell 2,261 and xbow kills increased 23,562, without any factoring in of gun kills. Seems a pretty big jump to me. Since WI is a two buck state, one might assume firearm buck kills to remain unchanged. Do you have that data by chance? Edit: I suppose since total kill remained relatively steady, that would contradict my above supposition. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see the data. Edit: xbow increase number is incorrect
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Post by batman on Feb 13, 2018 9:48:38 GMT -6
The crossbow effect would be negligible in MN since we are a one-buck-limit state. IMHO. This eliminates the double dipping that you have in WI, and forces many guys to be choosier about the buck they shoot. Cross tagging, party hunting, poaching.
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Post by kabic on Feb 13, 2018 9:49:58 GMT -6
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Post by terrifictom on Feb 13, 2018 9:55:59 GMT -6
So trad bow buck kills fell 2,261 and xbow kills increased 23,562, without any factoring in of gun kills. Seems a pretty big jump to me. Since WI is a two buck state, one might assume firearm buck kills to remain unchanged. Do you have that data by chance? Edit: I suppose since total kill remained relatively steady, that would contradict my above supposition. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see the data. Here is the gun chart. Remember if you add the crossbow numbers and bow numbers and compare before the crossbow season was created there are not big changes. Just a shift of weapon choice. Also the DNR has said that gun hunters have switched to crossbows but do not give numbers for that.
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Post by batman on Feb 13, 2018 10:00:32 GMT -6
The info shows its easier to kill a buck with a crossbow as the seasons sit now. Question DNR is posing is should they shorten the crossbow season because of the obvious current advantage.
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