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Post by terrifictom on Feb 13, 2018 10:19:51 GMT -6
If you limit the number of tags for each sex to fit a stated population/age structure goal you probably could do that. Although I certainly wouldn’t be for it. If the state can get the public to manage for state decided 'goals' you can kiss your 2.5 year old bucks good bye. You don't want crossbows in archery season on your neighbors farms. They will kill more of your young bucks. Wisconsin data supports thats line of thinking. That simply is not true about the Wisconsin data supporting that. If it isn't about greed by bowhunters how about if each year a different weapon gets to hunt the rut. If bowhunters are truly worried about the success of crossbow hunters during the rut, why are they not pushing to have gun season moved back as there are years when gun season hits the rut.
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Post by batman on Feb 13, 2018 10:26:31 GMT -6
If the state can get the public to manage for state decided 'goals' you can kiss your 2.5 year old bucks good bye. You don't want crossbows in archery season on your neighbors farms. They will kill more of your young bucks. Wisconsin data supports thats line of thinking. That simply is not true about the Wisconsin data supporting that. If it isn't about greed by bowhunters how about if each year a different weapon gets to hunt the rut. If bowhunters are truly worried about the success of crossbow hunters during the rut, why are they not pushing to have gun season moved back as there are years when gun season hits the rut. Wisconsin data supports the argument that crossbow hunters are more successful at killing bucks than vertical bow hunters. It follows that if your neighbors use crossbows in archery season they have a better chance if tagging a buck.
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Post by terrifictom on Feb 13, 2018 10:41:01 GMT -6
The info shows its easier to kill a buck with a crossbow as the seasons sit now. Question DNR is posing is should they shorten the crossbow season because of the obvious current advantage. If by easier do you mean cleaner? Like I said before take all the unrecovered/wounded bucks that bowhunters have and their success rate would probably be as high as the crossbows. I would have a total different view and would agree that crossbow season should be shortened if the charts showed that the resource was threatened in Wisconsin but that is not the case. One more thing Wisconsin sells Patrons license that includes both Crossbow and Bow license or you can purchase both for an additional 3.00 dollar fee.. The state has no way to tell if you bought it for bow or crossbow so it doesn't use that in their success rates which could skew their so called success rates for both. I wouldn't go on the success rates that WBH is quoting.
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Post by batman on Feb 13, 2018 10:51:59 GMT -6
The info shows its easier to kill a buck with a crossbow as the seasons sit now. Question DNR is posing is should they shorten the crossbow season because of the obvious current advantage. If by easier do you mean cleaner? Like I said before take all the unrecovered/wounded bucks that bowhunters have and their success rate would probably be as high as the crossbows. I would have a total different view and would agree that crossbow season should be shortened if the charts showed that the resource was threatened in Wisconsin but that is not the case. One more thing Wisconsin sells Patrons license that includes both Crossbow and Bow license or you can purchase both for an additional 3.00 dollar fee.. The state has no way to tell if you bought it for bow or crossbow so it doesn't use that in their success rates which could skew their so called success rates for both. I wouldn't go on the success rates that WBH is quoting. Your DNR appears to think it has the data it needs. I honestly don't care one way or the other. But I won't pretend it changes nothing.
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Post by Satchmo on Feb 13, 2018 11:19:39 GMT -6
The crossbow effect would be negligible in MN since we are a one-buck-limit state. IMHO. This eliminates the double dipping that you have in WI, and forces many guys to be choosier about the buck they shoot. Cross tagging, party hunting, poaching. All of those are being done now, and have nothing to do with crossbows. You should be lobbying against cross tagging, party hunting, and for hiring more wardens.
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Post by batman on Feb 13, 2018 11:54:42 GMT -6
Cross tagging, party hunting, poaching. All of those are being done now, and have nothing to do with crossbows. You should be lobbying against cross tagging, party hunting, and for hiring more wardens. You should be lobbying against over limits of brown bullheads.
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Post by Satchmo on Feb 13, 2018 12:01:38 GMT -6
All of those are being done now, and have nothing to do with crossbows. You should be lobbying against cross tagging, party hunting, and for hiring more wardens. You should be lobbying against over limits of brown bullheads. Seems a little off topic, but OK. Wasn't aware there was a problem there.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Feb 13, 2018 12:02:17 GMT -6
It won't be long and this will happen in Minnesota. Unless you are unable to use a compound bow there is no reason for a crossbow. That is how I look at it. Scary if MN opened up crossbows from Sept-Dec. We already have too many hunters. It would further wreck what has already been wrecked.
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Post by batman on Feb 13, 2018 12:08:41 GMT -6
Read a recent article said WI has 18+ dpsm and Minnesota has 9 dpsm averaged over the state.
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Post by wiscwhip on Feb 13, 2018 12:42:26 GMT -6
Do you have the kill numbers broken down by weapon type? Yes I do. The numbers are up for crossbows but that is because of the 13,000 hunters that shifted to crossbows. As bow hunters and gun hunters switch to crossbows your kill numbers will go up for crossbows. What I find interesting even with bowhunting losing that amount of hunters after the crossbow season started the bow kill remained fairly steady.
Per the chart above, for the years 2011 thru 2013 harvest averaged about 44,000 bucks, for the years after the "switch", the average was just under 50,000 bucks. 6,000 extra antlered deer per year after crossbow legalization is not an insignificant increase, unless the total deer numbers have skyrocketed as well, and we ALL know that is NOT the case. I don't care how you compare the Xbow vs vert bow numbers, 6,000 extra antlered deer per year are not helping increase the total numbers of huntable animals on the landscape. Many of those 6,000 deer would likely not be killed at all if vert bows were the only choice, sure some would be wounded and die, but it would not be remotely near the total amount of extra deer that are now being taken.
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Post by benmnwi on Feb 13, 2018 12:43:53 GMT -6
Those spring conservation meetings are pretty worthless in my opinion. How many times have those meetings recommended banning baiting statewide, pushing for a reduction in wolf numbers, recommended increasing bear tags, etc? They come up with a pile of recommendations that make sense, but most of the time nothing happens.
I would prefer WI take care of the baiting issue first since that's directly related to crossbow (and vertical bow and gun) success. A neighbor using a crossbow might kill a deer I would also like to kill, but a neighbor baiting can kill a massive amount of daylight movement in the whole neighborhood.
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Post by Satchmo on Feb 13, 2018 15:05:38 GMT -6
Yes I do. The numbers are up for crossbows but that is because of the 13,000 hunters that shifted to crossbows. As bow hunters and gun hunters switch to crossbows your kill numbers will go up for crossbows. What I find interesting even with bowhunting losing that amount of hunters after the crossbow season started the bow kill remained fairly steady.
Per the chart above, for the years 2011 thru 2013 harvest averaged about 44,000 bucks, for the years after the "switch", the average was just under 50,000 bucks. 6,000 extra antlered deer per year after crossbow legalization is not an insignificant increase, unless the total deer numbers have skyrocketed as well, and we ALL know that is NOT the case. I don't care how you compare the Xbow vs vert bow numbers, 6,000 extra antlered deer per year are not helping increase the total numbers of huntable animals on the landscape. Many of those 6,000 deer would likely not be killed at all if vert bows were the only choice, sure some would be wounded and die, but it would not be remotely near the total amount of extra deer that are now being taken. Yea, but your gun hunter numbers and harvest are down significantly.
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Post by kl9 on Feb 13, 2018 15:09:29 GMT -6
Read a recent article said WI has 18+ dpsm and Minnesota has 9 dpsm averaged over the state. WI measures in habitable landscape whereas Mn is gross landscape per DMU. Do you by chance know if the article adjusted for this?
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Post by batman on Feb 13, 2018 15:22:20 GMT -6
Read a recent article said WI has 18+ dpsm and Minnesota has 9 dpsm averaged over the state. WI measures in habitable landscape whereas Mn is gross landscape per DMU. Do you by chance know if the article adjusted for this? To get this data, we simply divided the states’ deer populations by their total number of claimed square miles. That leaves you with the average number of whitetails per square mile.
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Post by wiscwhip on Feb 14, 2018 7:22:53 GMT -6
Per the chart above, for the years 2011 thru 2013 harvest averaged about 44,000 bucks, for the years after the "switch", the average was just under 50,000 bucks. 6,000 extra antlered deer per year after crossbow legalization is not an insignificant increase, unless the total deer numbers have skyrocketed as well, and we ALL know that is NOT the case. I don't care how you compare the Xbow vs vert bow numbers, 6,000 extra antlered deer per year are not helping increase the total numbers of huntable animals on the landscape. Many of those 6,000 deer would likely not be killed at all if vert bows were the only choice, sure some would be wounded and die, but it would not be remotely near the total amount of extra deer that are now being taken. Yea, but your gun hunter numbers and harvest are down significantly. I know, that's kind of my point, we still need to increase the herd in MANY areas of the Forest Zones of Central and Northern WI and killing that many more deer per year is not helping in that regard. And, that is without even mentioning that the buck:doe ratio in WI is already slightly skewed in some areas, all while, as Tom stated himself, the available antlerless tags have increased, but the doe kill has not increased at the same rate as the buck kill, in fact it has went down a good bunch(which is good for getting the numbers back up, but...that math should not be working that way), this will tend to skew short term buck:doe ratios even further. It is just as enjoyable to me to see a fork horn or basket 8 walk under my stand as any other deer, but when they are being taken off the landscape at a record pace(according to the kill percentages), I no longer have those deer around to walk under my tree. What I would like to see is the registration numbers for each year from Oct 25th thru Nov 10th. I'm betting a good number of those extra buck kills come during that period, further cementing the fact that deer are just easier to kill with a xbow, especially when they are at their most vulnerable. Might as well give everyone an '06 or .308 for those 15 days. And in my case, it has nothing to do with "greed among the bowhunters" wanting the rut for themselves, because I only gun hunt anymore. I just want to see more than a deer or 2 over nine days for a goddamn change, and any increase in the kill right now is detrimental to that end, regardless if it is bucks, does, or fawns. Just did the math for the County and Zone I hunt in(which is only really half the county due to the split Farmland/Forest Zones), and there has been an extra 46 bucks killed per year since the xbow rules were put in affect, doesn't seem like much, but considering I am in a Forest Zone area with very low deer densities to begin with, this seems like it is not a good thing when improving overall deer numbers is what the CDAC has recommended. I just feel that xbows should be moved into the late archery season only.
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