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Post by Catscratch on Feb 24, 2018 15:33:26 GMT -6
I had just read a bunch of his anti-gun rants, and for some reason thought he was preaching the same in his classroom also. Teachers should leave opinion out of the classroom and stick with facts. Its not a teachers right to interject their opinion and try to push agenda. I went back and scanned through his page again and didn't see anything that indicates he was saying this in the classroom through. Maybe I jumped the gun a bit.
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Post by westbranch on Feb 25, 2018 8:49:58 GMT -6
I would agree its not good if he is preaching that in the class room. But you had said this:
The constitution has 27 amendments. The whole point of it is that it can be changed and you can bad mouth it. So yeah, he shouldn't go on classroom rants. But the best teachers have had provided comments, anecdotes, and opinions along with facts. I get the feeling that if someone posted a link to some teacher's facebook page that was going on about how great the 2nd amendment people posting here would have been cheering. I am a big fan of the 2nd amendment, but conservatives have happily thrown others amendments the bus over the last 15 years. Their only proposed solution seems to be turning schools into a prison with armed guards. Oh yeah, thoughts and prayers seem to work too.
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Post by Freeborn on Feb 25, 2018 9:05:34 GMT -6
I would agree its not good if he is preaching that in the class room. But you had said this: The constitution has 27 amendments. The whole point of it is that it can be changed and you can bad mouth it. So yeah, he shouldn't go on classroom rants. But the best teachers have had provided comments, anecdotes, and opinions along with facts. I get the feeling that if someone posted a link to some teacher's facebook page that was going on about how great the 2nd amendment people posting here would have been cheering. I am a big fan of the 2nd amendment, but conservatives have happily thrown others amendments the bus over the last 15 years. Their only proposed solution seems to be turning schools into a prison with armed guards. Oh yeah, thoughts and prayers seem to work too. From a practically standpoint how do you stop the violence now? Soft targets, ample gun supply and a public who will not agree on anything particularly gun control leaves few choices. In the short term I want kids safe and that means some kind of protection. The country protects government buildings so for now I would pay extra taxes to hire police to guard schools. If we don't more kids will die well before this country agrees to gun control.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Feb 25, 2018 9:10:20 GMT -6
This teacher does spew shit like this in his classroom, some kids have called him out on it. He is a nice guy, but some of his views to me are a little overboard.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Feb 25, 2018 9:14:18 GMT -6
I would agree its not good if he is preaching that in the class room. But you had said this: The constitution has 27 amendments. The whole point of it is that it can be changed and you can bad mouth it. So yeah, he shouldn't go on classroom rants. But the best teachers have had provided comments, anecdotes, and opinions along with facts. I get the feeling that if someone posted a link to some teacher's facebook page that was going on about how great the 2nd amendment people posting here would have been cheering. I am a big fan of the 2nd amendment, but conservatives have happily thrown others amendments the bus over the last 15 years. Their only proposed solution seems to be turning schools into a prison with armed guards. Oh yeah, thoughts and prayers seem to work too. From a practically standpoint how do you stop the violence now? Soft targets, ample gun supply and a public who will not agree on anything particularly gun control leaves few choices. In the short term I want kids safe and that means some kind of protection. The country protects government buildings so for now I would pay extra taxes to hire police to guard schools. If we don't more kids will die well before this country agrees to gun control. My proposal to the school board advisory committee is going to be to add a full time security guard at the school, not part time, no matter the cost. I would hope other schools would do the same.
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Post by Reagan on Feb 25, 2018 10:09:45 GMT -6
From a practically standpoint how do you stop the violence now? Soft targets, ample gun supply and a public who will not agree on anything particularly gun control leaves few choices. In the short term I want kids safe and that means some kind of protection. The country protects government buildings so for now I would pay extra taxes to hire police to guard schools. If we don't more kids will die well before this country agrees to gun control. My proposal to the school board advisory committee is going to be to add a full time security guard at the school, not part time, no matter the cost. I would hope other schools would do the same. I’ve been reading about the first cop at the Florida school. And the second and the third. If the guard doesn’t take action as these guys seemed to do, kids still get killed.
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Post by westbranch on Feb 25, 2018 10:18:38 GMT -6
I am not going to pretend that I know the solution.
Extra taxes to guard schools in the short term sounds good in theory. With the way everything else is handled by the gov't (both left and right) hard to imagine that ever ending and not getting expanded. We are still stuck with the security theater of the TSA if you want to travel within national borders. I am sure the DeVos family is already figuring out how to get their hands on gov't contracts for more charter schools and providing security for them. Perfect opportunity for more corporate welfare like the private prison system.
A lot of conservatives are saying something needs to be done about mental health. Where is that funding going to come from? If mental health practitioners were required to deem someone fit to be able to be able to own a weapon how much liability would they have? I am sure most in private practice would not be willing to take on that liability. Good luck getting PL insurance to cover that for any significant amount.
I saw a post in one of these threads recently where someone was against restrictions for someone who has been convicted of domestic violence because it could be some crazy-ex that accused them. Maybe something is wrong with me when I see that as being completely irrational.
When I have been in gun stores and hear/see some people that are buying AR platform weapons or handguns it makes me shake my head. I have seen more than enough that have some sort of self-defense fantasy. From what I have seen a significant amount of CCW training is a joke. Just checks the boxes so people can carry around their toys. IMO many of these people have the wrong mindset. If they are posting selfies with an AR or Glock on facebook and instragram I don't think they are taking their responsibility as a firearms owner seriously.
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Post by Freeborn on Feb 25, 2018 11:00:27 GMT -6
I am not going to pretend that I know the solution. Extra taxes to guard schools in the short term sounds good in theory. With the way everything else is handled by the gov't (both left and right) hard to imagine that ever ending and not getting expanded. We are still stuck with the security theater of the TSA if you want to travel within national borders. I am sure the DeVos family is already figuring out how to get their hands on gov't contracts for more charter schools and providing security for them. Perfect opportunity for more corporate welfare like the private prison system. A lot of conservatives are saying something needs to be done about mental health. Where is that funding going to come from? If mental health practitioners were required to deem someone fit to be able to be able to own a weapon how much liability would they have? I am sure most in private practice would not be willing to take on that liability. Good luck getting PL insurance to cover that for any significant amount. I saw a post in one of these threads recently where someone was against restrictions for someone who has been convicted of domestic violence because it could be some crazy-ex that accused them. Maybe something is wrong with me when I see that as being completely irrational. When I have been in gun stores and hear/see some people that are buying AR platform weapons or handguns it makes me shake my head. I have seen more than enough that have some sort of self-defense fantasy. From what I have seen a significant amount of CCW training is a joke. Just checks the boxes so people can carry around their toys. IMO many of these people have the wrong mindset. If they are posting selfies with an AR or Glock on facebook and instragram I don't think they are taking their responsibility as a firearms owner seriously. Agree on the gun training and many gun owners. If we need a temporary solution then maybe the national guard until we can Work a permanent solution. The gun control issue will take way to long to solve and unfortunately we can't afford the time. We need a short term and long term solution. Considering we are talking about children we need something in place immediately and not in a few weeks or months or years.
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Post by sd51555 on Feb 25, 2018 12:16:28 GMT -6
I saw a post in one of these threads recently where someone was against restrictions for someone who has been convicted of domestic violence because it could be some crazy-ex that accused them. Maybe something is wrong with me when I see that as being completely irrational. When I have been in gun stores and hear/see some people that are buying AR platform weapons or handguns it makes me shake my head. I have seen more than enough that have some sort of self-defense fantasy. From what I have seen a significant amount of CCW training is a joke. Just checks the boxes so people can carry around their toys. IMO many of these people have the wrong mindset. If they are posting selfies with an AR or Glock on facebook and instragram I don't think they are taking their responsibility as a firearms owner seriously. That was me. And I think I only mentioned accused or arrested. Convicted is different because convicted means there was due process. Accused and arrested is not due process. Lots of women out there start to build their divorce cases long before they ever file or even state their intention to file, simply to ensure they get their payout and custody rights secured. Men are already second class citizens when it comes to family issues. There is a sad and forgotten group of men out there that have had their families and fortunes taken. To see them lose anymore, without due process, would be tragic. There's no #MeToo movement to solve or even shine light on the depression and suicide rates among divorced fathers. Then to take away their right to deer hunt without due process? That's too much. There are only so many times the young men can watch that happen all around them before the lesson starts to sink in. It's not until that conversation is had that there'll be any progress in reversing the falling marriage rates in the west. To which the response from the ladies is "Not all women are like that" or NAWALT. Would you jump out of a plane if you had a 50/50% chance of surviving it? And I wouldn't worry about the doomsday crowd. Those guys are sitting on mountains of .22 and corrosive 9mm along with a pile of guns from the Sandy Hook hysteria they haven't touched in 5 years. They wear themselves out and run outta money.
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Post by Reagan on Feb 25, 2018 12:35:02 GMT -6
A hunting buddy just spent the last year battling his now ex wife. I have known them both for 15+ years. I watched her lie in a court room. I know she was lying. A man has no chance if a woman decides to destroy him during a divorce.
His boys didn’t get to hunt last year. He couldn’t carry even though he was licensed. After due process was complete, his life is getting back to normal.
What can happen to a law abiding citizen is sad.
But the Florida nut job avoids trouble even though he was reported several times.
No matter what we do, good people will get screwed. Bad people will commit crimes and nothing can completely stop it.
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Post by westbranch on Feb 25, 2018 13:40:40 GMT -6
I saw a post in one of these threads recently where someone was against restrictions for someone who has been convicted of domestic violence because it could be some crazy-ex that accused them. Maybe something is wrong with me when I see that as being completely irrational. When I have been in gun stores and hear/see some people that are buying AR platform weapons or handguns it makes me shake my head. I have seen more than enough that have some sort of self-defense fantasy. From what I have seen a significant amount of CCW training is a joke. Just checks the boxes so people can carry around their toys. IMO many of these people have the wrong mindset. If they are posting selfies with an AR or Glock on facebook and instragram I don't think they are taking their responsibility as a firearms owner seriously. That was me. And I think I only mentioned accused or arrested. Convicted is different because convicted means there was due process. Accused and arrested is not due process. Lots of women out there start to build their divorce cases long before they ever file or even state their intention to file, simply to ensure they get their payout and custody rights secured. Men are already second class citizens when it comes to family issues. There is a sad and forgotten group of men out there that have had their families and fortunes taken. To see them lose anymore, without due process, would be tragic. There's no #MeToo movement to solve or even shine light on the depression and suicide rates among divorced fathers. Then to take away their right to deer hunt without due process? That's too much. There are only so many times the young men can watch that happen all around them before the lesson starts to sink in. It's not until that conversation is had that there'll be any progress in reversing the falling marriage rates in the west. To which the response from the ladies is "Not all women are like that" or NAWALT. Would you jump out of a plane if you had a 50/50% chance of surviving it? And I wouldn't worry about the doomsday crowd. Those guys are sitting on mountains of .22 and corrosive 9mm along with a pile of guns from the Sandy Hook hysteria they haven't touched in 5 years. They wear themselves out and run outta money. I have a hard time understanding how men get into these long term relationships without seeing warning signs. Most of my peers in bad relationships ignored warnings from friends and have nobody to blame but themselves. Of people I know personally that have been divorced I can't think of any that have been too surprising. But even when the husband or wife had an affair they splits were mostly amicable and the tragic situations are by far in the minority. When I was at a CPA firm we had a couple clients with 7 figure divorce settlements. One business owner seemed to get so blinded by pussy that he would regularly be dating women 20+ years younger than him and have a new wife candidate every 9-12 months. He had to be talked out of getting married multiple times over their years I was there. Sure the women were shitty gold diggers, but if he got married without a prenup it would only be his fault. There are always going to be stories like Reagan's buddy but the plural of anecdote is not data. To blame it on the women is disregarding any personal responsibility for getting into the relationship in the first place. The failing marriage rates peaked in 1980 and have dropped since. Sorry only sources from fake news www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/upshot/the-divorce-surge-is-over-but-the-myth-lives-on.htmlwww.refinery29.com/2017/01/137440/divorce-rate-in-america-statisticswww.thisisinsider.com/what-is-the-divorce-rate-2017-2That's good that you are not worried about the doomsday crowd, they don't concern me too much. Like I originally said the poorly trained and irresponsible gun owners posting selfies on social media do.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Feb 25, 2018 18:13:42 GMT -6
My proposal to the school board advisory committee is going to be to add a full time security guard at the school, not part time, no matter the cost. I would hope other schools would do the same. I’ve been reading about the first cop at the Florida school. And the second and the third. If the guard doesn’t take action as these guys seemed to do, kids still get killed. That cop was outside, we want one inside the school, for now. But we really want is to bypass the mn law that says no one, not even teachers can have guns in schools. Only law enforcement can have guns in schools. So lets get some teachers post certified just like law enforcement, lets get them trained like law enforcement and get them thumb activated gun safes for select spots in the areas they teach. Boom! Problem solved!
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Post by Catscratch on Feb 25, 2018 19:16:24 GMT -6
I would agree its not good if he is preaching that in the class room. But you had said this: The constitution has 27 amendments. The whole point of it is that it can be changed and you can bad mouth it. So yeah, he shouldn't go on classroom rants. But the best teachers have had provided comments, anecdotes, and opinions along with facts. I get the feeling that if someone posted a link to some teacher's facebook page that was going on about how great the 2nd amendment people posting here would have been cheering. I am a big fan of the 2nd amendment, but conservatives have happily thrown others amendments the bus over the last 15 years. Their only proposed solution seems to be turning schools into a prison with armed guards. Oh yeah, thoughts and prayers seem to work too. Agreed 100%. My own statement (that you called out) was wrong fundamentally because I worded it poorly. He has the right to say anything he wants on facebook and in public, including voicing his views on changing the constitution. My comment stemmed from the belief that he was saying this stuff in the classroom... which I think is inappropriate, unprofessional, and a misuse of his time with other people's children and the tax dollars that pay his salary. The classroom should not be an agenda platform for personal views on social or political situations. This was my aim.
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Post by Catscratch on Feb 25, 2018 19:45:53 GMT -6
My opinion on the situation;
Armed presence in the school - Most BOE's want no part of their employees having weapons around children. Lots of liability and fear associated with that scenario. Plus, while teachers having access to weapons inside a classroom would help prevent more deaths, it won't keep the weapon from getting inside in the first place and taking out the first wave of victims. It's a reactive situation by nature. Police and military who are employed by the State or Feds will be much more appealing to BOE's and possibly prevent some attacks happening simply by having a strong presence.
Single entry point - A "buzzer" entrance with a monitor won't do much good because let face it, shooters are either students or recent students. They are people who are familiar to the school employees and should be there anyway. Short of frisking each student every morning this won't stop someone from bringing a weapon in.
Single point entry, armed guard manning an x-ray machine or metal detector, and a buzzer door - I think this is the quickest, cheapest, and most effective first step.
Our local school has a "resource officer" on campus just about ever day (highway patrol). He is open carry, armed with a taser, wears his vest, radio, etc... the full works. He is at the front door greeting kids in the morning, he walks the halls during passing periods, eats lunch with them, and is a Coach for the school. Kids are encouraged to talk with him if something is troubling them or if they aren't comfortable with something at school or at home. It is also very common to see the Chief of Police in the hallways at any given time. He and his officers attend ALL home sporting events or programs. It's no longer "odd" to see a gun and a badge in the school and the students treat them just like anyone else.
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Post by MoBuckChaser on Feb 25, 2018 21:23:30 GMT -6
My opinion on the situation; Armed presence in the school - Most BOE's want no part of their employees having weapons around children. Lots of liability and fear associated with that scenario. Plus, while teachers having access to weapons inside a classroom would help prevent more deaths, it won't keep the weapon from getting inside in the first place and taking out the first wave of victims. It's a reactive situation by nature. Police and military who are employed by the State or Feds will be much more appealing to BOE's and possibly prevent some attacks happening simply by having a strong presence. Single entry point - A "buzzer" entrance with a monitor won't do much good because let face it, shooters are either students or recent students. They are people who are familiar to the school employees and should be there anyway. Short of frisking each student every morning this won't stop someone from bringing a weapon in. Single point entry, armed guard manning an x-ray machine or metal detector, and a buzzer door - I think this is the quickest, cheapest, and most effective first step. Our local school has a "resource officer" on campus just about ever day (highway patrol). He is open carry, armed with a taser, wears his vest, radio, etc... the full works. He is at the front door greeting kids in the morning, he walks the halls during passing periods, eats lunch with them, and is a Coach for the school. Kids are encouraged to talk with him if something is troubling them or if they aren't comfortable with something at school or at home. It is also very common to see the Chief of Police in the hallways at any given time. He and his officers attend ALL home sporting events or programs. It's no longer "odd" to see a gun and a badge in the school and the students treat them just like anyone else. You kinda counter dicked yourself with this a little. So as long as the guy is post certified, which LEO's are, BOE's they accept him having a gun in school while talking and eating lunch with the kids. So if we get the teachers post certified it should be accepted.......right?
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