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Post by smsmith on Mar 1, 2024 6:38:46 GMT -6
I can't speak for every shotgun unit, but the days of using a bird barrel and bead site are gone here. Deer drives are also a thing of the past for the most part.
That said, a slug coming out of a Savage 220 still doesn't come close to comparing in killing effectiveness to a bullet out of a deer rifle.
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Post by caveman on Mar 1, 2024 7:22:04 GMT -6
The shotgun only zone was implemented to limit the deer kill in southern MN where there were not so many deer. Now most of the CWD areas of the state are in southern MN, and more deer kill is desired. Makes no sense to keep the shotgun only zone. Would be better off eliminating all gun hunting where it is deemed a safety risk and make rifles legal in the rest of the state. We got crossbows during archery season now to replace the shotguns where gun hunting would be deemed unsafe.
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Post by wklman on Mar 1, 2024 8:42:41 GMT -6
Agree. Too many people using shotguns and slugs with no sights or decent barrel on 'em. Those guns are ill equipped for deer hunting.....and those "hunters" that use those guns are seldom knowledgeable on how those guns will "group'". Many of those guns wont "group" 3 shots inside a pie plate at 25 yards. It's mostly shoot and hope for many of those guys. I feel the same way and remember guys talking about numerous Hail Mary shots with a shotgun at running deer. They would empty the gun. I have safety concerns with this, as those who do the same with a rifle. Most rifle kills by my family are one shot, but we don’t drive deer. Now, as a counter point to our view, are these multiple slug shots at running deer now a thing of the past and you and I are now dated in our views of what goes on? No, it's still alive and well. I'm actually on the line for shotguns and rifles. The north side of the road(where I live is rifle), and the south side of the road is shotgun. I here way more multiple volley shots from across the street during rifle season than I do on this side. I've heard ten shots at once before. Talking to the neighbors, every single one of the shotgun hunters has at least 2 or more wounded deer they've hit and not found. Not so much with the rifle hunters.
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Post by Foggy on Mar 1, 2024 9:59:00 GMT -6
I feel the same way and remember guys talking about numerous Hail Mary shots with a shotgun at running deer. They would empty the gun. I have safety concerns with this, as those who do the same with a rifle. Most rifle kills by my family are one shot, but we don’t drive deer. Now, as a counter point to our view, are these multiple slug shots at running deer now a thing of the past and you and I are now dated in our views of what goes on? No, it's still alive and well. I'm actually on the line for shotguns and rifles. The north side of the road(where I live is rifle), and the south side of the road is shotgun. I here way more multiple volley shots from across the street during rifle season than I do on this side. I've heard ten shots at once before. Talking to the neighbors, every single one of the shotgun hunters has at least 2 or more wounded deer they've hit and not found. Not so much with the rifle hunters. I grew up in Southcenteral Minnesota and saw (and used) many of the birdshot guns used to hunt deer. I think the further south you get in MN....the more bird shot barrels you will see for deer hunting. I started out that way and for many years we didn't have many choices....or could not afford to buy some of the solutions. Lots of deer shot at with an 870 with a 30" barrel and foster slugs. There are still many (bogus) shotgun barrel and sighting set ups that simply are not up to decent accuracy....IMO. Then there are reciever saddle scope mounts and various "saddle on a sow" solutions that folks try to jerry-rig some of those bird guns. I suppose it's somewhat better now.....but most slug guns are inherently inaccurate. Exceptions exist....including that Savage 220.
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Post by smsmith on Mar 1, 2024 10:32:31 GMT -6
My Ithaca Deer Slayer shoots nice groups out to 150, and maybe farther...but I'll never shoot a deer at 150 yards with it. Just because the thing groups well at those distances doesn't mean it kills deer effectively at those distances. I've never shot a deer with my Ithaca (or any other shotgun) much over 75 yards. I much prefer 50 yards or less.
I'd like this unit to go to rifles, not so I can shoot farther...but just so I can legally hunt deer with my Dad's old .308.
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Post by benmnwi on Mar 1, 2024 11:50:19 GMT -6
Most of the guys I know used rifled slug barrels and scopes that are accurate to at least 100 yards. They can still throw the lead out pretty good when making deer drives though. Deer drives aren't as common down here as they were years ago though, so guys seem to be switching to the more accurate rifled barrels. I can't remember the last time I've seen a guy slug hunting with a smooth bore barrel.
In Rusk County, big deer drives are still common. Some of the guys must use AR style semi-auto guns and they spray the lead. I would not want to be hunting a property next door when those guys start blazing away.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Mar 1, 2024 12:13:46 GMT -6
I’m against rifles statewide. It will not be a positive in my area (more open farm country). I don’t see as much of an issue in that Parkers Prairie area, or even parts of Todd County. It should be by county in my opinion. My local state Representative said the same reps are opposed to it and did not think it will pass. Apparently the Rochester area was excluded ? He said the argument was a shit show and was voted down last year.
If it passes I’ll use a .350 Legend and have full body armor on !🙂 …more than likely I’ll be somewhere else hunting. I just don’t enjoy the orange army shotgun or rifle.
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Post by Foggy on Mar 1, 2024 13:39:24 GMT -6
I’m against rifles statewide. It will not be a positive in my area (more open farm country). I don’t see as much of an issue in that Parkers Prairie area, or even parts of Todd County. It should be by county in my opinion. My local state Representative said the same reps are opposed to it and did not think it will pass. Apparently the Rochester area was excluded ? He said the argument was a shit show and was voted down last year. If it passes I’ll use a .350 Legend and have full body armor on !🙂 …more than likely I’ll be somewhere else hunting. I just don’t enjoy the orange army shotgun or rifle. I cannot say I have given much thought to a solution for the Shotgun zones......but it would seem to me that straighwall cases could / should get a pass for the Shotgun zones. I think this might limit the ranges and provide a better solution than slugs. I think many of the old pistol cartridges (and some of the later cartridges developed) would be effective in a rifle.
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Post by Bwoods11 on Mar 1, 2024 13:42:37 GMT -6
Foggy.. I agree! Low kick and they don’t have much further range than a Savage 220!
*450 Bushmaster can be a long range rifle.
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Post by smsmith on Mar 1, 2024 13:52:25 GMT -6
There are plenty of folks already using AR pistol platforms in .308, 30-06 and others in the shotgun zone.
We don't need to complicate things further by going to straight wall cartridges. If Art can hunt with a rifle in any legal caliber where he hunts, there's zero reasons why I can't. If you want to look at things on a north/south of I94 basis, I suppose I could support that.
To me, the state should go with rifle statewide and leave it up to counties and/or cities to come up with more restrictive rules if they wish.
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Post by Sandbur on Mar 1, 2024 16:23:33 GMT -6
There are plenty of folks already using AR pistol platforms in .308, 30-06 and others in the shotgun zone. We don't need to complicate things further by going to straight wall cartridges. If Art can hunt with a rifle in any legal caliber where he hunts, there's zero reasons why I can't. If you want to look at things on a north/south of I94 basis, I suppose I could support that. To me, the state should go with rifle statewide and leave it up to counties and/or cities to come up with more restrictive rules if they wish. My area is far more open than Stu’s area. We have entire sections open for crops. I have to say that we have very few deer drives around here anymore.
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Post by Foggy on Mar 1, 2024 18:28:43 GMT -6
There are plenty of folks already using AR pistol platforms in .308, 30-06 and others in the shotgun zone. We don't need to complicate things further by going to straight wall cartridges. If Art can hunt with a rifle in any legal caliber where he hunts, there's zero reasons why I can't. If you want to look at things on a north/south of I94 basis, I suppose I could support that. To me, the state should go with rifle statewide and leave it up to counties and/or cities to come up with more restrictive rules if they wish. ^ This would open the door to local politics....and perhaps anti gun sentiments. Not a good plan IMO.
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Post by smsmith on Mar 1, 2024 18:39:38 GMT -6
There are plenty of folks already using AR pistol platforms in .308, 30-06 and others in the shotgun zone. We don't need to complicate things further by going to straight wall cartridges. If Art can hunt with a rifle in any legal caliber where he hunts, there's zero reasons why I can't. If you want to look at things on a north/south of I94 basis, I suppose I could support that. To me, the state should go with rifle statewide and leave it up to counties and/or cities to come up with more restrictive rules if they wish. ^ This would open the door to local politics....and perhaps anti gun sentiments. Not a good plan IMO. Outstate MN is almost entirely red politically. I'd much prefer to have local entities controlling what goes on around here than Fat Timmy Other than the Rochester and Mankato areas, I'm not sure which cities/areas in outstate MN (in the shotgun zones) would have much anti gun sentiment? WI went to statewide rifle years ago. Guess what happened? Not much.
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Post by benmnwi on Mar 1, 2024 19:02:22 GMT -6
There are already local rules that determine whether you can discharge firearms within city limits, so I don’t think this would be much different.
Wisconsin isn’t noticeably different than Minnesota and rifles are used there, so I don’t think there is any legitimate safety issue.
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Post by smsmith on Mar 1, 2024 19:31:58 GMT -6
There are already local rules that determine whether you can discharge firearms within city limits, so I don’t think this would be much different. Wisconsin isn’t noticeably different than Minnesota and rifles are used there, so I don’t think there is any legitimate safety issue. That goes back to what I said about Art's vs. my place. Over there, it's flat as hell and not a lot of trees in many areas. Here, it's very rolling with lots of trees. If the shotgun vs. rifle zones were based on safety, the rules would be reversed for his place and mine. Back when WI went to statewide rifle, the "safety" of shotguns vs. rifles was debunked. It's a non-issue. If anything, rifles are safer. The only thing that's really being fought is tradition. "That's not how it used to be"...
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